LIVIFOREVER Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 Just now, DA Baracus said: Zero guarantee of that, unless you think the games would have instantly ended, i.e. the ref blowing the final whistle, if the penalties were scored (and that's assuming they were scored, of which there is no guarantee either). Well theirs wouldn't have been scored anyway, which is non debatable.It favoured St Johnstone getting an early goal to hang onto, so on that point it certainly fecked up our whole game plan. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 Just now, LIVIFOREVER said: Well theirs wouldn't have been scored anyway, which is non debatable.It favoured St Johnstone getting an early goal to hang onto, so on that point it certainly fecked up our whole game plan. Livingston might have went on to win the game easily. St Johnstone might have scored a second. It could have ended 3-3. Livingston could have a player sent off, or a key player having to go off injured. There is absolutely no way to know how the game would have ended had the penalty been awarded, so saying it cost you a place in the top 6 simply isn't valid. What cost you was drawing a game earlier against whoever you drew against instead of winning, or not equalising in a game you lost etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RawB93 Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 34 minutes ago, Hoose Rice said: If a year or two after VAR is introduced there is still the same shit happening then I hope the clubs then decide against it. Is there an example of any other league having VAR then binning it? There's no way the OF let that happen after all the noise they've made to get it, because they know it will favour them, as @Thenorthernlight touches on. Just look at the EPL and the amount of dodgy decisions Liverpool get for example. Attackers blatantly leaving their leg dangling for an onrushing keeper to brush and they go flying. VAR decision = penalty. I don't want to see that happening here. This idea that VAR is a fix-all solution to contentious decisions is an absolute myth and needs binned. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoose Rice Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 1 minute ago, RawB93 said: Is there an example of any other league having VAR then binning it? There's no way the OF let that happen after all the noise they've made to get it, because they know it will favour them, as @Thenorthernlight touches on. Just look at the EPL and the amount of dodgy decisions Liverpool get for example. Attackers blatantly leaving their leg dangling for an onrushing keeper to brush and they go flying. VAR decision = penalty. I don't want to see that happening here. This idea that VAR is a fix-all solution to contentious decisions is an absolute myth and needs binned. We can be the first? Same as some want us to be the first big league that doesn't want it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoose Rice Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 14 minutes ago, DA Baracus said: Zero guarantee of that, unless you think the games would have instantly ended, i.e. the ref blowing the final whistle, if the penalties were scored (and that's assuming they were scored, of which there is no guarantee either). St Johnstone got a penalty that never was. Livi got denied a stonewaller. Both they decisions reversed would have changed the outcome massively. Deep down, you know it fine well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 3 minutes ago, Hoose Rice said: St Johnstone got a penalty that never was. Livi got denied a stonewaller. Both they decisions reversed would have changed the outcome massively. Deep down, you know it fine well. The second wouldn't have happened if the first didn't. That isn't how reality works. We have no idea how the game would have finished had the St Johnstone penalty not been given. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 47 minutes ago, Hoose Rice said: a year or two after VAR is introduced there is still the same shit happening then I hope the clubs then decide against it What is this madness. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoose Rice Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 5 minutes ago, DA Baracus said: The second wouldn't have happened if the first didn't. That isn't how reality works. We have no idea how the game would have finished had the St Johnstone penalty not been given. It would very unlikely have finished 1-0 St Johnstone if St Johnstone didn't get a penalty then Livi' got one ruled out. It could have happened I suppose, but it's probably cost Livingston more than £1m and Dundee more because of incorrect decisions that could and will be quickly cleared up with screen monitors. We don't play in the highland leagues. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoose Rice Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 5 minutes ago, Busta Nut said: What is this madness. It's just as farcical an idea than moaning about shite ref's and the old firm getting everything then saying nah to a leveller. Big game the morrow' got to dash x 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 1 minute ago, Hoose Rice said: It would very unlikely have finished 1-0 St Johnstone if St Johnstone didn't get a penalty then Livi' got one ruled out. It could have happened I suppose, but it's probably cost Livingston more than £1m and Dundee more because of incorrect decisions that could and will be quickly cleared up with screen monitors. We don't play in the highland leagues. It cost Livingston £0, unless you can somehow see alternative realities and how it would have played out. 18th December, Livingston 1-1 Ross County. That cost them £1m. Or any other draw. St Johnstone 3-1 Dundee. That cost Dundee. Or perhaps Dundee 0-5 Ross County. Or Dundee 0-4 Livingston. Or Motherwell 1-0 Dundee. Etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 21 minutes ago, Hoose Rice said: St Johnstone got a penalty that never was. Livi got denied a stonewaller. Both they decisions reversed would have changed the outcome massively. Deep down, you know it fine well. Ours was a clear penalty. There were claims of offside at the initial cross in but that was never conclusive from the camera angles. Livi were certainly denied a stonewaller but in between those incidents Livi avoided an absolutely crystal clear red card for Penrice’s wild challenge on Cleary for which he was bizarrely only booked. If Clancy gets that right we play the closing stages a goal and a man up and are more likely to score a second than give away the penalty Livi should have had. Claiming that penalty not being given in isolation is what cost Livi top six is ridiculous. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 If they had got the penalty and scored it and it had finished 1-1 that wouldn't have been enough. They were 2-0 up with 15 minutes to go in the final game and only have themselves to blame. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamora Fan Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 St Johnstone got a penalty that never was. Livi got denied a stonewaller. Both they decisions reversed would have changed the outcome massively. Deep down, you know it fine well. This is a great example of why VAR is a fucking stupid concept. Our first penalty in that game the guy sticks out his arm and it hits it. You can argue about whether it’s deliberate but it’s a subjective call! Not one you can rule on 100% by having someone delay the game for 5 minutes and make us feel even more bored and cold than we were. There were also 2 Livi tackles in that game which at the time looked like potential red card tackles. One probably should have been and the other probably shouldn’t have been, but they both would have amounted to a lengthy god awful delay. If the exact same course of events was then followed - even with Livi down to ten/nine men in this VAR hypothetical nightmare - they would then have got the penalty they all felt they really deserved when Cleary tripped over his feet and his hand happened to hit the ball. Putting them on track for a point (if they scored it!).. which wouldn’t even have been enough for top six?! VAR is for the sore losers of this world; the Old Firm fans, the Martindales and the Callum Davidsons who can never take a defeat and, in the case of the latter two, accept they might have been at fault. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 People thinking VAR is gonna be some sort of miracle cure for dodgy refs or old firm favouritism are need their heads checked. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loonytoons Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 People thinking VAR is gonna be some sort of miracle cure for dodgy refs or old firm favouritism are need their heads checked.People thinking VAR is going to be a miracle cure, full stop, need their heads checked.Tragic viewing when sitting at home, horrendous when you're actually at a game. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVIFOREVER Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 1 hour ago, DA Baracus said: Livingston might have went on to win the game easily. St Johnstone might have scored a second. It could have ended 3-3. Livingston could have a player sent off, or a key player having to go off injured. There is absolutely no way to know how the game would have ended had the penalty been awarded, so saying it cost you a place in the top 6 simply isn't valid. What cost you was drawing a game earlier against whoever you drew against instead of winning, or not equalising in a game you lost etc. A wrong decision changed a game, and that had a knock on effect on us not making top six, you can argue if it would've made a difference all you want, but those are the facts. VAR would have made a difference in that game, which is what Hoose Rice was posting. That game had as much significance in us not making top 6 as earlier missed opportunities, so to dismiss it is wrong. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVIFOREVER Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Zamora Fan said: This is a great example of why VAR is a fucking stupid concept. Our first penalty in that game the guy sticks out his arm and it hits it. You can argue about whether it’s deliberate but it’s a subjective call! Not one you can rule on 100% by having someone delay the game for 5 minutes and make us feel even more bored and cold than we were. There were also 2 Livi tackles in that game which at the time looked like potential red card tackles. One probably should have been and the other probably shouldn’t have been, but they both would have amounted to a lengthy god awful delay. If the exact same course of events was then followed - even with Livi down to ten/nine men in this VAR hypothetical nightmare - they would then have got the penalty they all felt they really deserved when Cleary tripped over his feet and his hand happened to hit the ball. Putting them on track for a point (if they scored it!).. which wouldn’t even have been enough for top six?! VAR is for the sore losers of this world; the Old Firm fans, the Martindales and the Callum Davidsons who can never take a defeat and, in the case of the latter two, accept they might have been at fault. Our manager is saying VAR would've had Davidson offside before the pen incident happened. To quote the Dunfermline poster, everything after that pen goal changes if the pen and goal doesn't happen. Edited April 15, 2022 by LIVIFOREVER 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 2 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said: A wrong decision changed a game, and that had a knock on effect on us not making top six, you can argue if it would've made a difference all you want, but those are the facts. VAR would have made a difference in that game, which is what Hoose Rice was posting. That game had as much significance in us not making top 6 as earlier missed opportunities, so to dismiss it is wrong. Those are not the facts, unless you too can see alternative realities. We have no idea how the game would have went. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVIFOREVER Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 2 minutes ago, DA Baracus said: Those are not the facts, unless you too can see alternative realities. We have no idea how the game would have went. Stop talking pish. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJF Posted April 15, 2022 Share Posted April 15, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Hoose Rice said: I'm sure you said the same in Dortmund, twice. Swings and roundabouts. Football is an entertainment sport. In my opinion, it’s more entertaining when you can react naturally without having the VAR cloud looming over you. Edited April 15, 2022 by AJF 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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