DukDukGoose Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 22 minutes ago, Donathan said: I think when you resort to personal insults you have lost the debate I think you lost the debate when your first point was that clubs should go to great expense to purchase a giant screen that should have to cater to thousands of people. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Empty It Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 I'd be very surprised if these VAR advocates attend matches regularly rather than watching them on TV. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, Empty It said: I'd be very surprised if these VAR advocates attend matches regularly rather than watching them on TV. I go to 10-15 English premier league matches per season plus a fair few internationals. I’m used to watching VAR decisions get made in person. I’ll admit it’s VERY annoying when you’ve celebrated a goal but then need to hang around a few minutes to see if the VAR will chalk it off or not. I guess for me, that ranks below competitive fairness in terms of my priorities. Aside from conspiracy theories/big team decisions/crowd influence, it’s genuinely very hard to make the correct refereeing decisions in real time with the naked eye. I would rather they take a minute to get the decisions right even if that’s a slight inconvenience to the fans in the stadium (and even at that, is it really that inconvenient to sit for 2 minutes waiting for the opposition’s goal to be checked? Rather that than a goal be allowed to stand when their striker was half a yard offside) I have set out some options on how the VAR experience can be improved for the fan in the stadium but ultimately I think it’s been a good addition to the game and there’s a reason why there’s no serious campaign to scrap it from within the game. Players absolutely hate being on the wrong side of human error from referees and anything to minimise that will be welcomed inside the game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiochas III Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 11 hours ago, Donathan said: In the American Football NFL, each team has 2 challenges per game and only gets a 3rd if BOTH of the first 2 are successful (and in any case, cannot get more than 3). Having said that, they’re rarely used at all because certain key situations are automatically reviewed by their version of the VAR without the team having to challenge. One massive difference, the automatic review in a match taking place in Miami is being reviewed by the same people that will be automatically reviewing a match taking place in Chicago 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 15 hours ago, 54_and_counting said: Fans only hate VAR when it doesn't go for them false 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Empty It said: I'd be very surprised if these VAR advocates attend matches regularly rather than watching them on TV. Not a chance they go. They can pretend they do but the only folk I know who like it and have chatted to about it watch it on telly and switch over for Love Island half the time. Fitba is a TV show these days. Nothing else. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjoey Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 So many of the folk in favour of the VAR system in football are quoting the success of similar systems in tennis, cricket and rugby. These three sports are inherently stop start and having a review system is easy to implement. Football is a sport that should flow a lot more and the VAR system over the years throughout Europe has proved that it just doesn't work in football. The horrendous problem is that now it's here it will never disappear, so people that are screaming "get it in the bin" are wasting their time. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, kingjoey said: So many of the folk in favour of the VAR system in football are quoting the success of similar systems in tennis, cricket and rugby. These three sports are inherently stop start and having a review system is easy to implement. Football is a sport that should flow a lot more and the VAR system over the years throughout Europe has proved that it just doesn't work in football. The horrendous problem is that now it's here it will never disappear, so people that are screaming "get it in the bin" are wasting their time. How many of your posts on here would you call a good use of time…? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuttonDressedAsLahm Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 13 hours ago, Donathan said: For me, the single biggest thing that reduces my enjoyment of football is a feeling that my team has been unfairly treated by the referee. For that reason, VAR is an absolute must. Having said that, I would welcome any measures to improve the experience of VAR for fans. Firstly, every stadium that uses it should have a screen where replays are shown to the crowd as they’re checked by the officials. If a goal is being checked for offside or a foul in the build up, the replay should be shown to the fans in the ground so that they understand what is going on. Secondly, the referee should be mic’d up and the conversation between the on field ref and the VAR official should be available to fans both watching on TV and those in the stadium (I’m not sure whether this would be over the tannoy or with a little headphone like they give you at the snooker) Thirdly, I’d welcome any steps to speed up VAR reviews. My pet peeve is when the ref spends minutes with his hand to his ear waiting for the VAR official to send him over to the monitor, then runs he has to go and check it himself. For anything but the most obvious decisions, the ref should be going straight to the monitor. I also think once the ref is at the monitor it should be time limited to 45-60 seconds. If no clear and obvious error is identified in that time then the on field decision should stand. Fourthly, technology should be used to automate offside decisions like it was at the World Cup. There’s absolutely no reason for humans to be drawing lines on a screen manually in this day and age. Not only is it prone to human error, but it’s a complete waste of time. A few points: 1. Screens are a massive problem but clearly budget and funding related. Not sure what can be done, or at what speed. 2. Having the referee's comms over the tanoy/TV is something that IFAB/UEFA/FIFA are looking at and will trial. There are any number of very obvious reasons that this can't work as easily as rugby, but clearly something that fans want and football desires 3. VAR reviews will speed up with referee familiarity and comfort. The VAR operators provided by Hawkeye will also become more familiar and aspects will speed up. What justifies 'clear and obvious' (or other similar policy) will continue to be refined by the SFA, just as Howard Webb is doing in England. It's always a balance as no matter where you try to draw that line, you create edge cases one way or the other and some group of fans/coaches/players/pundits will be unhappy (too little intervention in one direction, too much in the other) 4. That won't occur. We're adding an arbitrary and completely unnecessary pressure, which will only result in mistakes being made. You'd imagine that the match referee is already feeling the pressure, potentially asked to review the monitor in the 90th minute of the game having run 11km and with a heart rate of 170. Adding yet more stress benefits precisely no one. 5. The World Cup/Champions League lines are automated because the technology was available. VAR in Scotland already has substantially fewer cameras than other major leagues, and cannot afford Goal Line Technology. Automatic offside, certainly for the foreseeable future, is an absolute non-starter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibsFan Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 2 hours ago, kingjoey said: The horrendous problem is that now it's here it will never disappear, so people that are screaming "get it in the bin" are wasting their time. I created the Chronicles of the Banter Years thread, do I look like someone short of time? 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 5 hours ago, Antiochas III said: One massive difference, the automatic review in a match taking place in Miami is being reviewed by the same people that will be automatically reviewing a match taking place in Chicago Literally the same people? What happens if two big decisions happen simultaneously, do they just wait around? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stressball Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, craigkillie said: Literally the same people? What happens if two big decisions happen simultaneously, do they just wait around? They’ve got a massive team tbf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 How is this different to the current situation in Scottish football? Is it because they are collectively making decisions across all the games rather than having an official assigned to every individual game? There are three people per game in the VAR room for Scottish football - a VAR, assistant VAR and a technical person dealing with the footage feeds etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiochas III Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 (edited) 37 minutes ago, craigkillie said: Literally the same people? What happens if two big decisions happen simultaneously, do they just wait around? Yes, but their VAR officials never make a decision even if it is a yes/no answerable question. They have rules where automatic reviews take place. These are usually game stopping plays anyway (Touchdowns/Turnovers) so the waiting around is just normal turn of play. They're also not looking for any fouls before/during play to negate the score/turnover either just a simple yes or no on the rules was it a score or not, or was it a turnover or not. The Review Booth don't tend to get involved independently until the last 2 minutes of each half, and even then it's a quick "referee stop play, take a look" as usually the O side are in hurry up. All reviews/decisions that require confirmed/different decision on what is originally called on field are decided by on the field official not the booth. Hence, why only an idiot would compare Football VAR and NFL Booth Review as the same thing Edited March 23, 2023 by Antiochas III 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 The VAR officials don't really make decisions in football either - everything is referred to the referee to look at, aside from factual ones. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiochas III Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, craigkillie said: The VAR officials don't really make decisions in football either - everything is referred to the referee to look at, aside from factual ones. All booth reviews are technically factual in the NFL, For example. Touchdown, was any bodypart that declares a player down down before or after. A catch* that sees a player go out of bounds. Were two feet down and control maintained throughout, yes or no? NFL's VAR does not look for players committing a foul either during a play that leads to a TD/Turnover/major play even if that foul is the only reason the scenario it is looking at happened. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Heliums Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 7 hours ago, Donathan said: I’ll admit it’s VERY annoying when you’ve celebrated a goal but then need to hang around a few minutes to see if the VAR will chalk it off or not. Progress of a sort, at least, from your crackpot argument that fans 'should just adapt' or even celebrate twice. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Heliums Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 "Tell me you don't pay to watch live football in Scotland without actually telling me you don't pay to watch live football in Scotland" 17 hours ago, Donathan said: I’m happy to slow down the game by a minute or two to give the referee both the benefit of TV replays and the assistance of the VAR official. I would certainly prefer to hear the conversations though like we do in rugby. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjoey Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, Dons_1988 said: How many of your posts on here would you call a good use of time…? Quite a few, including my most recent. My point was not to stop criticising the VAR system, but to stop thinking that it will ever be binned. Edited March 23, 2023 by kingjoey 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjoey Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 7 hours ago, HibsFan said: I created the Chronicles of the Banter Years thread, do I look like someone short of time? Me neither. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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