VAR in Scottish Football

[AJF]

3 hours ago, bennett said:

The penalty,  I can't tell with that footage.

The sending off. High and reckless, catches him below the knee. I'd have been moaning if that was just a yellow.

Jack's yellow. A stupid petulant tackle to make,  could have easily been a red though. Collums ego may have saved Jack.

The penalty is totally subjective as to whether someone believes his arm was making his body unnaturally bigger. It seems to hit his arm while it is extended at a stretch, but I think these types of handball, especially when there is a deflection or knock on from close proximity get penalised far too often. It’s an issue with the rule rather than the decision itself.

[Dundee Hibernian]

39 minutes ago, Fletchers Saucy Manbun said:

VAR is the problem, and it's been a shambles everywhere. It's a stupid, stupid idea.

Good for folk who watch football on screens rather than in the flesh though. And the media pundits. So the desired result.

[Loonytoons]

27 minutes ago, Dundee Hibernian said:

Good for folk who watch football on screens rather than in the flesh though. And the media pundits. So the desired result.

I watch a fair bit on tv.  It's still utter pish.

[Theyellowbox]

19 hours ago, Fletchers Saucy Manbun said:

VAR is the problem, and it's been a shambles everywhere. It's a stupid, stupid idea.

The principle is right. A replay to check whether the big decisions are obviously right or wrong. The application is a total mess. IF we could get it used as intended then it adds to the game. But, as is, it is a mess and if not used correctly, then it should be binned.

In Scotland, if we expected to throw the part time and frankly useless officials at VAR and expected it to work, we were deluded. I assumed with VAR we'd move to professional refs. What we should be doing is outsourcing the VAR checks to refs outside Scotland to take away the ingrained bias/fear. 

[Loonytoons]

3 hours ago, Theyellowbox said:

The principle is right. A replay to check whether the big decisions are obviously right or wrong. The application is a total mess. IF we could get it used as intended then it adds to the game. But, as is, it is a mess and if not used correctly, then it should be binned.

In Scotland, if we expected to throw the part time and frankly useless officials at VAR and expected it to work, we were deluded. I assumed with VAR we'd move to professional refs. What we should be doing is outsourcing the VAR checks to refs outside Scotland to take away the ingrained bias/fear. 

Other than the first paragraph, what a pile of crap.  Professional refs in the EPL have been shown up time and time again without any ingrained bias/fear. 

VAR is totally detrimental to the game as a spectator sport, the small increase in correct decisions is totally overshadowed by how intrinsically shite the whole experience is to all but the anally retentive.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Loonytoons

[Dons_1988]

6 hours ago, Loonytoons said:

Other than the first paragraph, what a pile of crap.  Professional refs in the EPL have been shown up time and time again without any ingrained bias/fear. 

VAR is totally detrimental to the game as a spectator sport, the small increase in correct decisions is totally overshadowed by how intrinsically shite the whole experience is to all but the anally retentive.

Just a shame none of us could see it coming. 

[wastecoatwilly]

12 hours ago, Loonytoons said:

VAR is totally detrimental to the game as a spectator sport, the small increase in correct decisions is totally overshadowed by how intrinsically shite the whole experience is to all but the anally retentive.

It's a binary answer M8, the spin of interpretation is hilarious.  

[Charles Stiles]

13 hours ago, Loonytoons said:

Other than the first paragraph, what a pile of crap.  Professional refs in the EPL have been shown up time and time again without any ingrained bias/fear. 

Accuses someone of talking a pile of crap then compares the EPL to the SPFL. 

[Loonytoons]

35 minutes ago, Charles Stiles said:

Accuses someone of talking a pile of crap then compares the EPL to the SPFL. 

I was comparing professional refs against part time refs.  HTH.

[DA Baracus]

42 minutes ago, Charles Stiles said:

Accuses someone of talking a pile of crap then compares the EPL to the SPFL. 

The EPL is one league. The SPFL more than one with different standards of refs throughout the leagues.

[Nowhereman]

20 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

The EPL is one league. The SPFL more than one with different standards of refs throughout the leagues.

Since you're being pedantic the EPL is one league and the SPFL is one league. The clue is in the names

[DA Baracus]

24 minutes ago, Nowhereman said:

Since you're being pedantic the EPL is one league and the SPFL is one league. The clue is in the names

An SPFL ref could be someone who referees at League 2 level. 

That isn't comparible to even a Premiership referee here, let alone an EPL one.

[Nowhereman]

1 minute ago, DA Baracus said:

An SPFL ref could be someone who referees at League 2 level. 

That isn't comparible to even a Premiership referee here, let alone an EPL one.

True 

[Div]

Running a temperature check on VAR 3 months in over on Twitter, over 6500 votes in already so if you haven't already please do lend your thoughts;

 

[HibsFan]

A legion of mindless morons underneath the poll saying "it isn't VAR it's the people using it" over and over again.

THAT'S WHAT VAR IS. WE KNEW THAT. WE HAD YEARS TO LOOK ELSEWHERE AND SEE IT WAS EXACTLY THAT. WHAT DID YOU FUCKING EXPECT WOULD HAPPEN?!

[Jacky1990]

I'm still in the camp of VAR being good in theory but have absolutely no faith in Scottish referees to make anything other than a clusterfuck of it.

It CAN be used well. Ive seen it be used well. 

But f**k me they havent half fucked it up. 

[Thenorthernlight]

Pre VAR, we had one cheat assisting The Rangers.

The only difference post VAR, is that we now have two cheats assisting The Rangers.

The body evidence grows by the week. 
Events at Ibrox on Saturday were laughable & only highlighted it. 

[ropy]

Do other countries see VAR ratified red cards overturned?

Its a shame other VAR decisions can’t be overturned.

VAR had a bad week. 

[craigkillie]

On 14/10/2022 at 22:44, craigkillie said:

The fact there aren't goal-line cameras doesn't mean they can't make goal-line decisions surely? They'll still be able to use the technology to make offside decisions on incidents where the players aren't directly in line with a camera, so why would goals be different? There might be the odd one where it's so obscured by players that they can't, but those will be rare.

 

On 15/10/2022 at 17:51, The Master said:

The technology for offsides supports the drawing of lines while accounting for parallax. 

While you could in theory draw lines to see if the ball has crossed the line, how would you know exactly which frame to take the still from? With offside, you pick the last one before the ball has left the passer’s foot. There’s no such reference point for the ball on its own…unless you have a goal-line camera, in which case the whole thing is moot. 

 

On 15/10/2022 at 22:00, craigkillie said:

In what way is determining the point at which the ball at the furthest forward any different to determining at which point the ball has left the attacker's foot? Both require a similar judgement call and are inexact.

The goal-line also doesn't move, unlike the final defender, so there is an obvious fixed point to compare to.


 

 

On 15/10/2022 at 22:15, The Master said:

The presence of the attacker gives a point of reference. You can tell the last frame where the ball is still in contact with their foot.

No such point of reference exists when determining where the ball is relative to the goal line.

This is all moot anyway. The lines and such that are used for offside will not be used to determine if the ball has crossed the line. 

 

On 16/10/2022 at 00:04, The Master said:

And how do you know the entire ball has crossed the line in the frame you've selected?

Remember - we're talking about games without goal-line cameras.

If you mean for offside, again you have the ability to extract the exact frame based on the reference point of the ball leaving the foot/head/etc. of the player who makes the pass. There's no such reference point for determining if the ball has crossed the line.

Offside has three things: the play of the ball, the position of the attacker, and the position of the defender. The first of those things is used to pick the frame, upon which the lines are drawn to determine the positions of the latter two relative to each other. 

If the argument is that the same can be applied to goals, the analogues are that the ball and the goal-line are the attacker and defender (respectively, or otherwise). Where is the third element, the one that determines the frame upon which the lines are drawn? 

 

On 16/10/2022 at 00:50, The Master said:

Which frame have you chosen to determine if the entire ball is over the "determined line"? 

This isn't a "gotcha". I'm genuinely trying to understand how you think VAR chooses the correct frame when there is no point of reference for doing so. 

 

St Mirren have just had a goal awarded after VAR confirmed it had crossed the line. I don't think it was originally given.

[Ginaro]

9 hours ago, ropy said:

Do other countries see VAR ratified red cards overturned?

Its a shame other VAR decisions can’t be overturned.

VAR had a bad week. 

Don't know, but other countries also get VAR decisions wrong (and at least in Scotland we can apply retrospective action even if officials have seen it).