VAR in Scottish Football

[rowsdower]

I'm pretty sure the linesman wouldn't have flagged for Aberdeen's goal if there wasn't VAR, it wasn't even close.

[Lex]

That nonsense of a perfectly good goal being chopped in Paisley today shows how ridiculous this is.
A soft foul is committed in our half and we score. VAR disallows for the soft foul.
If the goalward shot by Ayunga had been blocked with a hand I presume the penalty would have been given? Or would that have been over ruled by the foul over a minute earlier.
If the shot is tipped wide by the keeper, and we score from the resulting corner that goal would have been okay too, I assume.
If we can go back over a minute to chop off goals, can we go back two minutes? Five minutes? The ball does occasionally stay in play for extended periods of time, is there a cut off as to how far back is too far back?
This season a goal will be chopped off and a penalty given for an offence at the other end with this type of VAR check.
If a goal is scored and chopped off for a hand ball in the build up, but there was also a missed penalty at the opposite end two minutes prior, does the team get the penalty or the free kick?

[FTOF]

2 minutes ago, Lex said:

That nonsense of a perfectly good goal being chopped in Paisley today shows how ridiculous this is.
A soft foul is committed in our half and over a minute later we score. VAR disallows for the soft foul.
If the goalward shot by Ayunga had been blocked with a hand I presume the penalty would have been given? Or would that have been over ruled by the foul over a minute earlier.
If the shot is tipped wide by the keeper, and we score from the resulting corner that goal would have been okay too, I assume.
If we can go back over a minute to chop off goals, can we go back two minutes? Five minutes? The ball does occasionally stay in play for extended periods of time, is there a cut off as to how far back is too far back?
This season a goal will be chopped off and a penalty given for an offence at the other end with this type of VAR check.
If a goal is scored and chopped off for a hand ball in the build up, but there was also a missed penalty at the opposite end two minutes prior, does the team get the penalty or the free kick?

It all boils down to the "Attacking possesion phase".

VAR: Attacking possession phase explained (premierleague.com)

Quote

The starting point for a phase of play that leads to a goal or penalty incident will be limited to the immediate phase and not necessarily go back to when the attacking team gained possession.

There's no way, even if Baccus' hand contact was deemed a foul, that it happened in the APP.

There should be a couple of referees sitting tonight thinking, "I must do better".

[Ginaro]

7 hours ago, Detournement said:

He blew the whistle for a foul by the Greek striker on that one. Why would he let it run on?

His whistle went to his mouth when the ball was about a foot from the head of Ralston who scored, in VARball you need to wait a bit, even just a second or two in this case.

2 hours ago, FTOF said:

This what our goal today was disallowed for. The incident happened about 45 seconds before we "scored.

More like 15 seconds. 

1 hour ago, ropy said:

Do you think the linesman thought that was offside? No one else did, I felt he chucked the flag up as if to say, it’s worth a check given we have the system.

51 minutes ago, rowsdower said:

I'm pretty sure the linesman wouldn't have flagged for Aberdeen's goal if there wasn't VAR, it wasn't even close.

What is it about the topic of VAR that attracts nonsense posts like this. You're saying the AR thought it was onside but deliberately made a wrong decision to call it offside just because VAR is there, even though VAR would have checked it anyway (and proved him right) had he kept his flag down? 

Edited October 22, 2022 by Ginaro

[FTOF]

2 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

More like 15 seconds. 

It felt longer, but still highly dubious as to whether it was in the APP or not.

Therefore, it was a poor decision by our "finest" officials IMO.

[DA Baracus]

7 hours ago, craigkillie said:

It took 3 minutes to give a stonewall penalty, that's not acceptable, teething problems or not.

The pub my mate and I were in earlier (in Montrose) had the game on the big screens and pretty much everyone in the pub shouted that it was a penalty.

I reckon the ref probably would have given it if VAR wasn't in use but knew that there was extra scrutiny so decided to check it to be sure. Reckon most refs will do this going forward, particularly in games involving Celtic and Sevco.

Incidentally, that game finished 15 minutes later than a normal 90 minute game. Not a big issue in a game in Edinburgh that kicked off at 12.30 but for folk who may have booked a particular train home at away games this sort of nonsense will mean leaving a game early (or missing their train). 

Edited October 22, 2022 by DA Baracus

[craigkillie]

1 hour ago, ropy said:

Do you think the linesman thought that was offside? No one else did, I felt he chucked the flag up as if to say, it’s worth a check given we have the system.

It would have been checked whether he put the flag up or not.

[craigkillie]

There's no way the game finished 15 minutes later than a "normal game". There were about 6 minutes of stoppage time played in each half, which is 12 minutes in total. That's probably about 6 or 7 minutes more than you'd get in a normal game. The delays were unacceptable, but let's not exaggerate.

[ropy]

7 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

It would have been checked whether he put the flag up or not.

I made that point in our thread, seemed a pointless wave of a flag.

[craigkillie]

He obviously (incorrectly) thought it was offside, just like you get wrong offside calls every weekend of the season. I don't see how any other possibility can be plausible.

[DA Baracus]

27 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

There's no way the game finished 15 minutes later than a "normal game". There were about 6 minutes of stoppage time played in each half, which is 12 minutes in total. That's probably about 6 or 7 minutes more than you'd get in a normal game. The delays were unacceptable, but let's not exaggerate.

I specified 90 minutes. You're the one employing exaggeration here.

Incidentally, the game I was at today finished at 16.49.

[Lurkst]

3 hours ago, FTOF said:

This what our goal today was disallowed for. The incident happened about 45 seconds before we "scored.

 

Watching Sportscene there I thought that was the only poor VAR call of the day.

Several decisions correctly overturned that could have impacted the results. 

It'll take quite a while to make a proper judgement on the system, but so far my opinion is definitely more positive than negative. 

 

[pozbaird]

Fcuk VAR. VAR can fcuk off.

That is my genuine heartfelt opinion. Just. Fcuk. Off.

[DA Baracus]

Only absolute arseholes who don't really like football are fans of VAR.

[craigkillie]

1 hour ago, DA Baracus said:

I specified 90 minutes. You're the one employing exaggeration here.

Incidentally, the game I was at today finished at 16.49.

Why would anyone want to make a comparison to 90 minutes, when matches never finish 90 minutes after they kick off? The standard full-time of a non-VAR match will likely be anywhere between 16:48 and 16:52, I'd guess, and VAR will probably add a maximum of 6/7 minutes to that in the most extreme action packed game such as the Hearts v Celtic one (which finished at 14:29).

[DA Baracus]

5 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

Why would anyone want to make a comparison to 90 minutes, when matches never finish 90 minutes after they kick off? The standard full-time of a non-VAR match will likely be anywhere between 16:48 and 16:52, I'd guess, and VAR will probably add a maximum of 6/7 minutes to that in the most extreme action packed game such as the Hearts v Celtic one (which finished at 14:29).

I've seen plenty of matches finish 90 minutes after kick off. Seems to be fairly common in the lower leagues.

You note a finish time of betwen 2-7 minutes without VAR (debatable). Even so, the Hearts/Celtic game finished 15 minutes late.

 

Edited October 22, 2022 by DA Baracus

[craigkillie]

6 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

I've seen plenty of matches finish 90 minutes after kick off. Seems to be fairly common in the lower leagues.

You note a finish time of betwen 2-7 minutes without VAR (debately). Even so, the Hearts/Celtic game finished 15 minutes late.

 

I have no idea what you're talking about now to be honest. Football matches at any sort of decent level have not finished at 4:45 at any point this century, it is rare not to have at least 3 minutes stoppage time in the second half (often 4 or 5 now), and you sometimes get 1 in the first half too. Maybe at League 1 level and below the odd game will finish then due to it kicking off early (like the Pars game last week which was about 2:58) or having a shortened half-time, but that has not happened in the Premiership.

A game finishing 1 hour and 59 minutes after it kicked off cannot be described as "15 minutes late" under any sensible interpretation. Even compared to a dull 0-0 with no incident I'd see it as being at most 10 minutes "late". For a non-VAR game with two penalties, one retaken and 7 goals you'd probably be a lot less than that.

I've just checked Killie's last 5 pre-VAR games to see when we've tweeted the full-time score, and the times were:

1 hour 53 minutes
1 hour 52 minutes
1 hour 55 minutes
1 hour 51 minutes
1 hour 52 minutes

Today's was 1 hour 56 minutes, so an extra 3-5 minutes, albeit without any major VAR decisions.

[vikingTON]

9 hours ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Can only go on VAR in Scottish games as that's what we're talking about,

Why? Is it a different system to the one that has been used in other European leagues for several years?

If not, then we absolutely can go on the evidence from those matches. It is a shitebag's charter. Referees use it to abdicate responsibility, not make the tough calls. 

Quote

Yeah Collum isn't always great on the pitch but is away from that platform, hiding in a wee room, away from fan pressure too. 

What is your point supposed to be here? 

And the presence of Collum et. al. hiding in a wee room draws us to the next and arguably the biggest issue with VAR: the utter waste of officials to implement it. If there are six Category A referees being kept in a computer room every weekend to mark some other clown's homework in the Premiership matches, then who is left to officiate the other 15/21 matches in the SPFL? 

I'll tell you who: utter fucking incompetents, with all-time wee man personality disorders added on top of that. VAR for the top flight means pub league level officials for the second tier - a downgrade that naturally cascades all the way down the ranks. Why should the majority of SPFL clubs be appointed hopelessly inadequate losers to ruin their games every week, just to keep the Potemkin village effort of the Scottish Premiership = English Premiership alive for a minority of clubs? What is the collective benefit from this scheme?

I don't support all of the Morton board's decisions, but we were absolutely, 100% correct in being the only club to actually reject this utter fucking nonsense idea within Scottish football. 

Edited October 22, 2022 by vikingTON

[The Master]

49 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

I've seen plenty of matches finish 90 minutes after kick off. Seems to be fairly common in the lower leagues.

You note a finish time of betwen 2-7 minutes without VAR (debatable). Even so, the Hearts/Celtic game finished 15 minutes late.

 

Any match that finishes 90 minutes after kick-off is 15 minutes too short.

Spoiler

 

[Arch Stanton]

11 minutes ago, virginton said:

Why? Is it a different system to the one that has been used in other European leagues for several years?

If not, then we absolutely can go on the evidence from those matches. It is a shitebag's charter. Referees use it to abdicate responsibility, not make the tough calls. 

What is your point supposed to be here? 

And the presence of Collum et. al. hiding in a wee room draws us to the next and arguably the biggest issue with VAR: the utter waste of officials to implement it. If there are six Category A referees being kept in a computer room every weekend to mark some other clown's homework in the Premiership matches, then who is left to officiate the other 15/21 matches in the SPFL? 

I'll tell you who: utter fucking incompetents, with all-time wee man personality disorders added on top of that. VAR for the top flight means pub league level officials for the second tier - a downgrade that naturally cascades all the way down the ranks. Why should the majority of SPFL clubs be appointed hopelessly inadequate losers to ruin their games every week, just to keep the Potemkin village effort of the Scottish Premiership = English Premiership alive for a minority of clubs? What is the collective benefit from this scheme?

I don't support all of the Morton board's decisions, but we were absolutely, 100% correct in being the only club to actually reject this utter fucking nonsense idea within Scottish football. 

I agree 100%. All of the experienced Grade One Refs are going to be tied up by VAR week in, week out.

However, to escape that inequity, maybe Morton should try a bit harder to bridge the 34 year gap since they were last in the top division.

 

Edited October 22, 2022 by Arch Stanton