VAR in Scottish Football

[19QOS19]

I've been to only one game which had VAR, the aforementioned Scotland v Israel.
I celebrated when Dykes scored, I celebrated again when the Ref awarded it.
It wasn't difficult.

But I can absolutely guarantee your second celebration was nowhere near as good as the first. I doubt there are going to be folk falling over seats and running down to the front to celebrate with players once VAR confirms a goal and the players are already standing in their own half.

I like Middlesbrough and when they scored against Man Utd earlier in the season I never bothered to celebrate as I thought it was definitely going to be knocked off. The VAR had a 'mare and it was given. I felt deflated after it was given as I was 'cheated' of a celebration.

It won't affect me as a QoS fan, sadly. But it's another shit day for the Scottish game IMO. I'm genuinely gobsmacked folk have watched this piece of kit in action and think it's anything other than pish.

[oneteaminglasgow]

52 minutes ago, Theyellowbox said:

And that is part of the reason it can help. By using it correctly, I mean allowing the officials to allow the game to flow and then if there is an error, it is picked up afterwards. Often at the moment, the refs here just guess what a decision is if they have not seen it an they are human, so often that will be dictated by the crowd.

By having VAR it will help the refs get the decisions right, but will also allow the refs to explain to players why a decision has been made that in the heat of the game, I don't think they do as much as they used to.

When you watch a game with VAR on TV, you see a lot less arguing with the ref after a decision has been checked. In part, because the players know someone has reviewed, but also because they have had time to calm down.

I don't really want to be in the ground and not have the instant feel of a celebration. But, equally, there has been many times and a lot this season, where terrible decisions have been made that would materially change games. Take the last game I was physically at for example, St Johnstone v Livi. A blatant red card not picked up and blatant hand ball for a penalty that was either missed and ignored.

The major issue I have with VAR, aside from obviously the negative impact on the viewing experience and the instant feel of a celebration, is how do they determine what an error is, and most importantly why they decide some errors are more important to correct than others. I also feel that there are plenty of moments in football which don’t really have a “correct decision” as such.

For me, the only correct was to use VAR is to use it as little as possible, for instances where there can be little to no debate that an error was made. If a couple of replays aren’t enough to be certain, then VAR doesn’t get involved. And the offsides are a nonsense, the lines need to be thicker and I think that the benefit of the doubt should go to the attacker in those instances.

But we both know there’s no chance of it being used in this way. 

[Theyellowbox]

12 minutes ago, Flash said:

This. There should be a time limit on it and if they can’t come to a decision within the time, it wasn’t a clear and obvious error. Similarly, if they have to draw lines for an offside, the decision wasn’t obviously wrong.

I think that has got to be the next natural step for VAR. The technology for the lines may be there, but should it be used as it currently is. Likewise the time limit, if it takes a VAR referee 2 mins to decide, then it is not clear and obvious, even if down the line it is proven wrong.

I think the technology is sound and welcome it. However, as much as I think refs genuinely get things honestly wrong in games, there is an arrogance about our refs, that they may not want the advice.

Is there a way to or should we event attempt to, outsource the VAR checking to a ref outwith Scotland? 

[Theyellowbox]

1 minute ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

The major issue I have with VAR, aside from obviously the negative impact on the viewing experience and the instant feel of a celebration, is how do they determine what an error is, and most importantly why they decide some errors are more important to correct than others. I also feel that there are plenty of moments in football which don’t really have a “correct decision” as such.

For me, the only correct was to use VAR is to use it as little as possible, for instances where there can be little to no debate that an error was made. If a couple of replays aren’t enough to be certain, then VAR doesn’t get involved. And the offsides are a nonsense, the lines need to be thicker and I think that the benefit of the doubt should go to the attacker in those instances.

But we both know there’s no chance of it being used in this way. 

Also, it may come unstuck when even with VAR decisions are not consistent.

I'm all for VAR and think the correct decision has been made, but I know it is going to lead to further controversy. 

[Cardle is Magic]

51 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

I go to junior football, I'm genuinely interested in what happens throughout the SPFL and the pyramid, I have a ST at Utd and go to Scotland games. All of life is there.

I genuinely don't know what Liverpool v Man City or Bayern v Real Madrid would add to that.

If I want to consume a sporting product as an all singing showbiz made for TV spectacular then the NFL is a million times more interesting than football. 

Fair enough.

Liverpool vs Man City games this season have been magnificent btw.

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

2 hours ago, Ginaro said:

Of course it can be used to check whether the ball has crossed the line - VAR is checking for goal/no goal so it is not as narrow as just an offside or a foul, it could be the ball out of play, handball etc as well, anything in the attacking phase of play.

Presumably there will be a static camera in line with the goal line which should cover most cases where there is a close call.

Funnily enough, there was an incident in the Bundesliga recently where GLT gave a goal but VAR double checked and saw it had not crossed the line!

 

GLT is probably as big a sham as VAR. But it gets used so infrequently that no one notices.

I wonder how many clubs will now be looking into getting a couple of big screens into the stadium.

[Jacky1990]

29 minutes ago, Flash said:

This. There should be a time limit on it and if they can’t come to a decision within the time, it wasn’t a clear and obvious error. Similarly, if they have to draw lines for an offside, the decision wasn’t obviously wrong.

See, I think one of the areas where VAR falls down is the whole "clear and obvious error" line.

It should be about the referees between them coming to the correct decision (as often as possible anyway) in the big, game changing decisions. 

The offside one is different because it isnt (or shouldnt be) subjective. You are onside or offside, its not about proving if the linesman was wrong or not. But getting into the big toe of this player is beyond the unshaved arse hair of this player takes it way to far. I'd keep the lines, but if they have to get that secondary line pish involved then they simply give the advantage to the attacking team.

[Jacky1990]

58 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

I go to junior football, I'm genuinely interested in what happens throughout the SPFL and the pyramid, I have a ST at Utd and go to Scotland games. All of life is there.

I genuinely don't know what Liverpool v Man City or Bayern v Real Madrid would add to that.

If I want to consume a sporting product as an all singing showbiz made for TV spectacular then the NFL is a million times more interesting than football. 

You've fucked your own point there, mate.

American football is fucking insipid shite.

[Trackdaybob]

20 minutes ago, Theyellowbox said:

there is an arrogance about our refs,

Which itself is odd as none of them are that great. 

[invergowrie arab]

21 minutes ago, Cardle is Magic said:

Fair enough.

Liverpool vs Man City games this season have been magnificent btw.

I saw something on the news about it. A man scored a goal from a yard out tackling the goalie 

[LiviLion]

1 hour ago, Robin.Hood said:

Probably been posted already...

22k a year to have thousands of unhinged orcs tracking down your 2011 tweets, and posting your address all over social media because VAR overturned a penalty.

[johnnydun]

2 hours ago, Mr Heliums said:

TV - Sportscene is a great example nowadays - has become an exercise in did-the-referee-get-this-one right analysis that sucks the joy out of the game. Still, if you're an armchair fan and that's all you see, it's no surprise that you think the game needs VAR. 

 

1 hour ago, Jacky1990 said:

This does my fucking box in.

MOTD and Sportscene regularly just turn into a referee review show, its chronic. Its just another example of these fuckwit, lazy ex-pros who would rather spend 5 mins talking about a refereeing decision than analysing the performances because that would involve them having to actually analyse the game like they are paid for.

But this also highlights an important point.

Even after watching the same replay over and over, the pundits still don't agree with each other on some decisions, using one rule to contradict another. It is sometimes just a matter of a referee's opinion, which then makes the whole case for VAR completely pointless.

[HibsFan]

Between this and Ron Gordon showing himself up as a clueless c**t I think that's enough of football for me for the foreseeable.

[Swello]

19 minutes ago, johnnydun said:

 

But this also highlights an important point.

Even after watching the same replay over and over, the pundits still don't agree with each other on some decisions, using one rule to contradict another. It is sometimes just a matter of a referee's opinion, which then makes the whole case for VAR completely pointless.

Precisely the reason that broadcasters are keen on VAR is because it fuels even more shite debates between shite pundits rather than clearing things up, while at the same time making TV seem even more integral to the experience. 

[19QOS19]

GLT is probably as big a sham as VAR. But it gets used so infrequently that no one notices.
I wonder how many clubs will now be looking into getting a couple of big screens into the stadium.

GLT is not 100%. I don't care what anyone says.

[Ludo*1]

I liked VAR when it has been used in International competitions and the limited use I've witnessed of it in some other leagues.

I don't like the way it was implemented down South though and we absolutely will fall for every mistake they made with it and more.

Moreover, it'll be the likes of Steven McLean deciding over a Bobby Madden decision. 

Absolutely nothing will change other than the fury towards the refs in this country increasing substantially and the OF ramping up their conspiracy nonsense everytime a mistake is made.

[Melanius Mullarkey]

31 minutes ago, LiviLion said:

22k a year to have thousands of unhinged orcs tracking down your 2011 tweets, and posting your address all over social media because VAR overturned a penalty.

Bonus up to 10% per penalty awarded for Rangers* though.

[Scotty Tunbridge]

2 hours ago, Robin.Hood said:

Probably been posted already...

Did you apply?

[Robin.Hood]

5 minutes ago, Scotty Tunbridge said:

Did you apply?

In and around the central belt... A no from me. Coaching here will have to carry on 

[RedEd]

1 hour ago, 19QOS19 said:

2 hours ago, Jim McLean said:

GLT is probably as big a sham as VAR. But it gets used so infrequently that no one notices.
I wonder how many clubs will now be looking into getting a couple of big screens into the stadium.

GLT is not 100%. I don't care what anyone says.

Was it Sheffield United who were relegated when the ball was clearly over the line, but the ref didn't award a goal as his watch (or whatever they wear) didn't buzz?