VAR in Scottish Football

[Jacky1990]

2 minutes ago, Insert Amusing Pseudonym said:

It won't stop anyone going.  It will just be another in the long line of things that make going to a game a worse experience but you have to lean to live with.  Like getting charged more for slightly different parts of the same stand, having to sit in a designated seat, after goal music...

People on here have literally said theyll stop going if its introduced. Whether thats an empty threat or not, of course, is a different question.

Yeah, totally with you on that. Football, like all sports, changes all the time; some of the times its small changes, some big changes. I'm too young to remember it, but I'd imagine there was similar outcry when the offside rule or pass back rules were introduced, as with things like all seater stadiums and shirt sponsors being introduced. The world changes, we moan about it, we move on and get used to it, onto the other thing to moan about*. And the cycle will continue.

* football fans are going to absolutely fucking flip when (I'll repeat...when) heading is limited or outright banned.

[Dons_1988]

7 minutes ago, Jacky1990 said:

People on here have literally said theyll stop going if its introduced. Whether thats an empty threat or not, of course, is a different question.

Yeah, totally with you on that. Football, like all sports, changes all the time; some of the times its small changes, some big changes. I'm too young to remember it, but I'd imagine there was similar outcry when the offside rule or pass back rules were introduced, as with things like all seater stadiums and shirt sponsors being introduced. The world changes, we moan about it, we move on and get used to it, onto the other thing to moan about*. And the cycle will continue.

* football fans are going to absolutely fucking flip when (I'll repeat...when) heading is limited or outright banned.

I think it’s perfectly legitimate for folk to be angry about a game that gets more expensive and less enjoyable as time goes on. 

Other leagues can afford to alienate the match day fan but we can’t in Scotland. Clubs want to drive up their ST sales yet still go with the ‘aye they’ll be annoyed but they’ll come anyway’ approach. 

Actually, loads of people already find other ways to spend their weekends and plenty more are not far away from following. 

[Empty It]

These people advocating for VAR have clearly never been to a game involving it, it literally sucks all enjoyment out of the most joyous parts of the game. I completely understand and expect quite a few people wouldn't bother with going to the football if they introduce VAR.

[Mr Heliums]

3 hours ago, Jacky1990 said:

People on here have literally said theyll stop going if its introduced. Whether thats an empty threat or not, of course, is a different question.

It won't be. People often stop going to football for all sorts of reasons which might be thought trivial on their own, but the accretion of small, unpopular changes nevertheless mounts up (historically such small or incremental changes might include the doubling in real terms of the cost of spectating over the last 30 years, the demise of terracing, TV changing kick-off times, the growing gulf between rich and poor that has left leagues uncompetitive). For some, those changes accumulate to the point where the game is unrecognisable to the one they fell in love with, and they no longer turn up.

And VAR's threat is more fundamental than any of those. It affects a fan's freedom to spontaneously enjoy any goal. When I think of it that's pretty tied in to the reason I go to football matches. The telling thing about support for VAR is that it in the main it comes from managers, owners and regulators. It's being pushed on fans. And the fans who turn up to matches don't want it.

I have no doubt some fans will stop going. 

Edited October 14, 2021 by Mr Heliums

[Empty It]

It won't be. People often stop going to football for all sorts of reasons which might be thought trivial on their own, but the accretion of small, unpopular changes nevertheless mounts up (historically such small or incremental changes might include the doubling in real terms of the cost of spectating over the last 30 years, the demise of terracing, the growing gulf between rich and poor that has left leagues uncompetitive). For some fans, those changes accumulate to the point where the game is unrecognisable to the one they fell in love with, and they no longer turn up.
And VAR's threat is more fundamental than any of those. It affects a fan's freedom to spontaneously enjoy any goal. When I think of it that's pretty tied in to the reason I go to football matches. The telling thing about support for VAR is that it in the main it comes from managers, owners and regulators. It's being pushed on fans. And the fans who turn up to matches don't want it.
I have no doubt some fans will stop going. 

Or for some their club starts signing Catholics.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

Just imagine the tremendous social media patter everytime the OF get a VAR decision in their favour.

Live scenes from the VAR room after that Rangers penalty...

Goal disallowed for the away team at Celtic Park ? 

[Jacky1990]

1 hour ago, Empty It said:

These people advocating for VAR have clearly never been to a game involving it, it literally sucks all enjoyment out of the most joyous parts of the game. I completely understand and expect quite a few people wouldn't bother with going to the football if they introduce VAR.

Its been used at the last 4 Scotland games I've been to and I honestly barely noticed or thought about it for the most part and, for me personally, it didnt take any enjoyment out of anything, particularly the Israel game. Even with the delay for Dyke's goal, it was obviously a different feeling, but it wasnt a bad feeling for me, more a nervous anticipation of the decision. I thought it worked well in all 4 games I've been at and would be all aboard the VAR train if thats how it was used. Do I trust Scottish football and Scottish refs not to make a total arse of it though? Absolutely not.

But everyone is different and some have different, more negative, experiences of it. If the vast majority of fans are against it, which they are, its hard to argue it should be introduced. 

[ropy]

4:16 on a Saturday, possible penalty at Fir Park but all the adjudicators are standing round a screen trying to decide how to rule out a goal conceded at Ibrox.

Is the penalty awarded?

Edited October 15, 2021 by ropy

[Loonytoons]

6 hours ago, Jacky1990 said:

Its been used at the last 4 Scotland games I've been to and I honestly barely noticed or thought about it for the most part and, for me personally, it didnt take any enjoyment out of anything, particularly the Israel game. Even with the delay for Dyke's goal, it was obviously a different feeling, but it wasnt a bad feeling for me, more a nervous anticipation of the decision. I thought it worked well in all 4 games I've been at and would be all aboard the VAR train if thats how it was used. Do I trust Scottish football and Scottish refs not to make a total arse of it though? Absolutely not.

But everyone is different and some have different, more negative, experiences of it. If the vast majority of fans are against it, which they are, its hard to argue it should be introduced. 

 

I agree with a bit of that but the nervous anticipation and resulting goal being awarded is nothing near the elation of the immediate celebration.  Personally I felt robbed of my celebration with both winning goals and extremely frustrated knowing the penalty would never be awarded in the Faroes game because of off side.  It took donkeys to get there for a decision that should have taken 5 seconds.

You see the replays and you know what the resulting decision is going to be before it's given.  Akin to reading spoilers before you read a book or watch a movie.

I watch a fair bit of EPL and have no vested interest in any team and have found VAR to be awful.

Having it in games where I do have a vested interest, I have found it near insufferable.  Thank f**k It'll never really be an issue in most games I actually go to.

[Mark Connolly]

11 hours ago, ropy said:

4:16 on a Saturday, possible penalty at Fir Park but all the adjudicators are standing round a screen trying to decide how to rule out a goal conceded at Ibrox.

Is the penal ty awarded?

They've never needed a valid reason before, I can't see them bothering even with VAR.

[DukDukGoose]

On 13/10/2021 at 10:58, craigkillie said:

Furthermore, the handball rule which says that even an accidental touch of the hand is a foul if it leads directly to a goal was introduced as a direct result of VAR. If VAR didn't exist then it wouldn't even be discussed since Dykes very clearly didn't deliberately handle it.

You sure? I'm almost certain that rule came in the same season as VAR or before it. There was controversy because of a goal Aguero scored against Arsenal years ago and the rule was changed for the following season.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11679/11627469/watch-should-sergio-agueros-third-goal-against-arsenal-have-stood

[craigkillie]

9 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

You sure? I'm almost certain that rule came in the same season as VAR or before it. There was controversy because of a goal Aguero scored against Arsenal years ago and the rule was changed for the following season.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11679/11627469/watch-should-sergio-agueros-third-goal-against-arsenal-have-stood

That incident was in 2019 and VAR was first introduced in 2018.

[DukDukGoose]

10 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

That incident was in 2019 and VAR was first introduced in 2018.

Not in England though. Not to say it didn't happen elsewhere and the EPL incident was coincidental though.

[craigkillie]

56 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

Not in England though. Not to say it didn't happen elsewhere and the EPL incident was coincidental though.

The Laws of the Game are worldwide though, countries can't pick and choose which version they want.

[Donathan]

It’s interesting that people seem to think the OF will benefit from VAR decision. They currently benefit from horrendous on field refereeing decision and VAR being brought in will mitigate this. 

[Empty It]

It’s interesting that people seem to think the OF will benefit from VAR decision. They currently benefit from horrendous on field refereeing decision and VAR being brought in will mitigate this. 

Like its mitigating all the big clubs in England getting all the decisions....

[Donathan]

12 minutes ago, Empty It said:

23 minutes ago, Donathan said:

It’s interesting that people seem to think the OF will benefit from VAR decision. They currently benefit from horrendous on field refereeing decision and VAR being brought in will mitigate this. 

Like its mitigating all the big clubs in England getting all the decisions....

What evidence do you have that this is the case? 

[Donathan]

15 minutes ago, Empty It said:

26 minutes ago, Donathan said:

It’s interesting that people seem to think the OF will benefit from VAR decision. They currently benefit from horrendous on field refereeing decision and VAR being brought in will mitigate this. 

Like its mitigating all the big clubs in England getting all the decisions....

https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/how-the-premier-league-table-would-look-if-we-didnt-have-var-in-2020-21/
 

 

Everton and West Ham actually the biggest winners from VAR with Arsenal, Brighton and Liverpool the biggest losers. 

[Empty It]

https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/how-the-premier-league-table-would-look-if-we-didnt-have-var-in-2020-21/
 
 
Everton and West Ham actually the biggest winners from VAR with Arsenal, Brighton and Liverpool the biggest losers. 

I don't watch loads of premier league tbf I find it pretty boring, just everytime a questionable VAR decision is debated it always seems to be going in favour of the big team, obviously that's just perception if your stats are correct.

[Theyellowbox]

19 hours ago, Tommy Carcetti said:

Just imagine the tremendous social media patter everytime the OF get a VAR decision in their favour.

Live scenes from the VAR room after that Rangers penalty...

Goal disallowed for the away team at Celtic Park ? 

To be fair, the current pope is a big football fan and I think was a keeper in his youth, so probably is more able and capable that most of the folk who officiate football games. Note sure the old one would be allowed near a stadium if kids present, so rules him out.....

The other lot are stack back in the 1600's so wouldn't understand what a VAR monitor would be.