Arch Stanton Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 On 04/10/2021 at 16:08, AsimButtHitsASix said: quite right too As a Morton fan you're never going to have to concern yourself with VAR. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacky1990 Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 13 hours ago, craigkillie said: I was, and I didn't enjoy it as much as a result. I had it in my head that Dykes might have fouled in the build-up. Fair enough. I just think the reasoning of VAR killing moments and celebrations is quite a lazy argument. If people go in with the mindset that VAR will be shite and even when it gets the correct decisions it will take away from moments of joy (e.g. scoring a goal) then inevitably it will be a self fulfilling prophecy and that person will lose out on an experience. But I dont think thats VAR's fault, its the negative, pessimistic mindset of the fan, even if that isnt entirely their fault. If people go in with the idea that VAR isnt the devil then it still allows you to have the same experience, just a delayed restart and an added bit of drama with the will it/wont it count. Its similar lazy arguments that get banded around about plastic pitches and games always being shite on them. Btw, I'm not entirely sold in whether VAR will work in Scotland as I dont think we have the infrastructure and availability of cameras, etc, to make it worthwhile or cost effective, not even including the shocking standard of some referees and my distrust in them using it properly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 30 minutes ago, Jacky1990 said: Fair enough. I just think the reasoning of VAR killing moments and celebrations is quite a lazy argument. If people go in with the mindset that VAR will be shite and even when it gets the correct decisions it will take away from moments of joy (e.g. scoring a goal) then inevitably it will be a self fulfilling prophecy and that person will lose out on an experience. But I dont think thats VAR's fault, its the negative, pessimistic mindset of the fan, even if that isnt entirely their fault. If people go in with the idea that VAR isnt the devil then it still allows you to have the same experience, just a delayed restart and an added bit of drama with the will it/wont it count. Its similar lazy arguments that get banded around about plastic pitches and games always being shite on them. Btw, I'm not entirely sold in whether VAR will work in Scotland as I dont think we have the infrastructure and availability of cameras, etc, to make it worthwhile or cost effective, not even including the shocking standard of some referees and my distrust in them using it properly. Are you Howard Webb? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJF Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Jacky1990 said: Fair enough. I just think the reasoning of VAR killing moments and celebrations is quite a lazy argument. If people go in with the mindset that VAR will be shite and even when it gets the correct decisions it will take away from moments of joy (e.g. scoring a goal) then inevitably it will be a self fulfilling prophecy and that person will lose out on an experience. But I dont think thats VAR's fault, its the negative, pessimistic mindset of the fan, even if that isnt entirely their fault. If people go in with the idea that VAR isnt the devil then it still allows you to have the same experience, just a delayed restart and an added bit of drama with the will it/wont it count. Its similar lazy arguments that get banded around about plastic pitches and games always being shite on them. Btw, I'm not entirely sold in whether VAR will work in Scotland as I dont think we have the infrastructure and availability of cameras, etc, to make it worthwhile or cost effective, not even including the shocking standard of some referees and my distrust in them using it properly. I'm not sure it's a negative and pessimistic mindset as such that takes away from the experience, I think the fact that people know VAR is in operation it just consumes their thoughts rather than them give a natural reaction to the events on the pitch. For example the games I've experienced it live, it's not just been goal celebrations that are "different". Every slightly robust challenge that goes in, people either shout for VAR if it's committed by an opponent or they worry that VAR will pick it up if it's committed by your own team. Every tussle in the box with half-hearted penalty shouts is similar, with VAR being called upon or people hoping it isn't depending on who's box it is in. It is constant and continual throughout the match. Rangers conceded a penalty after a VAR review against Leverkusen in the first half of our Europa League match a couple of seasons ago. Now it may well be due to falling behind, but I certainly felt there was a change in comparison to the "usual" crowd reaction to decisions following that. Even when we scored it was a much more tame reaction than I'd normally expect. Anyway, football fans love to be angry about something. Bad decisions give us something to moan about in the pub. I'd rather a few bad decisions slip through the net that I can moan about afterwards than come away from a match and have nothing to harp on about if it means VAR is not introduced. Edited October 7, 2021 by AJF 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 Could you imagine the calls from the bigot brothers demanding the identities of the VAR officials? For that reason alone VAR can stay the fcuk out of our game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 36 minutes ago, Jacky1990 said: Fair enough. I just think the reasoning of VAR killing moments and celebrations is quite a lazy argument. If people go in with the mindset that VAR will be shite and even when it gets the correct decisions it will take away from moments of joy (e.g. scoring a goal) then inevitably it will be a self fulfilling prophecy and that person will lose out on an experience. But I dont think thats VAR's fault, its the negative, pessimistic mindset of the fan, even if that isnt entirely their fault. If people go in with the idea that VAR isnt the devil then it still allows you to have the same experience, just a delayed restart and an added bit of drama with the will it/wont it count. Well there are real world examples to draw on. TMO in rugby killed any interest I had in the game as a spectator. Its actually a bit better now but there was a time when every score was reviewed. It works where games naturally stop anyway. An LBW in cricket already had the mini drama of the 5 seconds before the umpire put their finger up, that's just been extended. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 It's great for set piece sports, it doesn't really infringe on the gameplay in sports like cricket, tennis or American football where there are lots of individual pieces of play and often breaks between them anyway.It's flowing sports like football, rugby and hockey that it can have a negative impact on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArabFC Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 55 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said: Well there are real world examples to draw on. TMO in rugby killed any interest I had in the game as a spectator. Its actually a bit better now but there was a time when every score was reviewed. It works where games naturally stop anyway. An LBW in cricket already had the mini drama of the 5 seconds before the umpire put their finger up, that's just been extended. Exactly this. Half the time you don't even bother celebrating a try in rugby as you know a review is coming. When United score a last minute winner, I want to wildly celebrate, not look nervously toward the big screen to see if computer says yes or no. VAR is a cancer upon the game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacky1990 Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 2 hours ago, ArabFC said: When United score a last minute winner, I want to wildly celebrate, not look nervously toward the big screen to see if computer says yes or no. How often do people celebrate wildly only to realise there is an offside flag? Or a delay in a decision as the referee talks to his officials? Does VAR really take away significantly more emotional response than those incidents that already happen fairly regularly? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolf Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 Team scores last minute winner against the old firm,how far back would VAR go to find an infringement? Undoubtedly,as far as it takes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theyellowbox Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 I think there is no doubt that having VAR changes the way fans react to goals and penalties etc as whichever way it goes, you expect it will be checked and that takes away from the instantaneous reactions. However, the argument that it delays the game is nonsense. Any decision that is contentions such as a penalty, has a long wait anyway as either the players are moaning or trying to slow the process down anyway. For the viewers at home VAR adds to the excitement and in the ground, probably diminishes it a bit, but if we do not go with VAR, we will be massively out of step with everyone else. Sky will demand it, as will UEFA eventually. How sustainable is it for players to play internationally and in Europe with it, but not domestically. Even folk in the ground, used to seeing it on all other TV games will have a moments pause if it is not there. There is deffinately plusses and minuses over it and as a game going fan I'm not sure I'd like the uncertain delay if it goes against my team, but would love it if it went for my team. Part of football is the debate over the refs decisions, but given there is so many tv angles already and can be checked in real time, the not using VAR is becoming unsustainable. Not to mention that in Scotland, there is an over heightened sense of un level playing field felt by all fans. Rangers and Cetic fans think the refs favour the other and everyone else thinks they favour them two. VAR won't 100% change that, but it will take away a degree of it. I do think we need to be careful to make it equal though. Cannot have some games getting 5-6 angles and others just 2 because of camera coverage. Also need (and I think this is already the case) clubs NOT to be able to show the replays on big screens. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranaldo Bairn Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 On 05/10/2021 at 21:52, Day of the Lords said: On 04/10/2021 at 18:18, Empty It said: I've seen the big teams benefit more in England than any other club there also still seems to be incidents conveniently missed, it would be exactly the same up here. Similarly Juventus seemed to benefit massively from VAR in Serie A. It'll be an ineffectual waste of money, result in previously unheard of levels of seethe from fans and be absolutely fucking tinpot in the SPFL. No fucking thank you. Is this true? I don't watch Italian football, but would be unsurprised if that were the case. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Other Foot Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 4 hours ago, Jacky1990 said: Its similar lazy arguments that get banded around about plastic pitches and games always being shite on them. Now he's defending the plastic pitches. HAUD ME BACK. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Jacky1990 said: How often do people celebrate wildly only to realise there is an offside flag? Or a delay in a decision as the referee talks to his officials? Does VAR really take away significantly more emotional response than those incidents that already happen fairly regularly? Nobody does this for an offside flag because it doesn't happen fairly regularly at all. Over the past 5 years I think of about 2 occasions at Tannadice where a seemingly good goal has been chopped off for offside where the shot was taken before the flag went up. Also there have been occasions where I haven't gone full mental as I'm looking across the line. This is an argument for getting of offside not adding more occasions where this might happen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArabFC Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 2 hours ago, Jacky1990 said: How often do people celebrate wildly only to realise there is an offside flag? Once in a blue moon and you can see the flag immediately. Or a delay in a decision as the referee talks to his officials? Can't even remember a United goal where this has happened. Admittedly Dundee fans got done this way. Does VAR really take away significantly more emotional response than those incidents that already happen fairly regularly? YES you slavering idiot! I shall not apologise. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacky1990 Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 1 hour ago, ArabFC said: I shall not apologise. And nor should you. But the point I am trying to make is that there is a reasonable discussion/debate to be had on the pros and cons of VAR and how it would be implemented in Scotland and the effect it would have on fan enjoyment. I'll repeat again that I am massively on the fence about it but people should be able to actually have an open conversation about it other than everyone just saying "VAR is shite and I dont like it and I dont want it". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 3 hours ago, woolf said: Team scores last minute winner against the old firm,how far back would VAR go to find an infringement? Undoubtedly,as far as it takes. The late ‘60s 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 41 minutes ago, Jacky1990 said: And nor should you. But the point I am trying to make is that there is a reasonable discussion/debate to be had on the pros and cons of VAR and how it would be implemented in Scotland and the effect it would have on fan enjoyment. I'll repeat again that I am massively on the fence about it but people should be able to actually have an open conversation about it other than everyone just saying "VAR is shite and I dont like it and I dont want it". It is an open conversation. People just think VAR is shite, don’t like it and don’t want it 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjoey Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 6 hours ago, Jacky1990 said: How often do people celebrate wildly only to realise there is an offside flag? Or a delay in a decision as the referee talks to his officials? The offside flag celebrations are killed after a second or two, and a delay in a decision as the referee talks to his officials happens once in a blue moon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loonytoons Posted October 7, 2021 Share Posted October 7, 2021 9 hours ago, Jacky1990 said: How often do people celebrate wildly only to realise there is an offside flag? Or a delay in a decision as the referee talks to his officials? Does VAR really take away significantly more emotional response than those incidents that already happen fairly regularly? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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