strichener Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 1 minute ago, Zern said: Okay, but would a business that was project to make £300 million in profit and declared £120 million instead be regarded as a failure? A failure would be a policy that posted a net loss or generated zero returns. It isn't a business though, people don't have the option to pay tax or not. If you are taking a cut of income and that income goes up but your cut doesn't increase by the same amount then that is a failure. When you specifically change the proportion of the cut that you take and as a result have less money then quite clearly it is a failure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zern Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 27 minutes ago, Left Back said: Yes. They’d be forced to issue profits warnings and their share price would tank. They would not go out of business though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zern Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 27 minutes ago, strichener said: It isn't a business though, people don't have the option to pay tax or not. If you are taking a cut of income and that income goes up but your cut doesn't increase by the same amount then that is a failure. When you specifically change the proportion of the cut that you take and as a result have less money then quite clearly it is a failure. Sounds a bit nitpicky to me. It is easy to understand why a tax on income, levied at a time where we shutdown large sectors of the economy may not have raised as much as predicted. This would be further exacerbated by a Brexit that shrinks trade. It did not lose money though. So whilst you can criticise it for not being as effective as it could be, that would tend to support the idea that further power over tax and redistribution be granted to the Scottish Parliament. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Brazil Forever Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 1 hour ago, Billy Jean King said: 4 hours ago, Blue Brazil Forever said: Plus a higher rate of Council tax. Eh, you do know Council Tax is set locally and varies from Council to Council ? Yes but also a higher rate of tax ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Jean King Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 Yes but also a higher rate of tax !You said specifically Council tax which is bollocks as it varies from authority to authority. It's nothing to do with the SG or UKG. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Heliums Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Blue Brazil Forever said: Plus a higher rate of Council tax. Really disappoints me when I read this sort of post. No effort to provide a source, or inform an argument, because naturally, the claim isn't true. Average Scottish Council Tax is way below England and Wales – I mean it's not even close: literally nearly a third lower for Band D properties in 19/20 – to the extent that there is a reasonable argument it should be much higher. (And those figures don't include water rates which are also significantly higher in England and Wales – but then they've privatised Water so that explains it.) Edited June 19, 2022 by Mr Heliums 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawson Park Boy Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 7 minutes ago, Mr Heliums said: Really disappoints me when I read this sort of post. No effort to provide a source, or inform an argument, because naturally, the claim isn't true. Average Scottish Council Tax is way below England and Wales – I mean it's not even close: literally nearly a third lower for Band D properties in 19/20 – to the extent that there is a reasonable argument it should be much higher. (And those figures don't include water rates which are also significantly higher in England and Wales – but then they've privatised Water so that explains it.) Always thought it was an SNP pledge to reform Council Tax? What happened to that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duries Air Freshener Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Dawson Park Boy said: Always thought it was an SNP pledge to reform Council Tax? What happened to that? I strongly suspect is was just another SNP lie to add to the long list. Edited June 19, 2022 by Duries Air Freshener 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 7 hours ago, Zern said: Sounds a bit nitpicky to me. It is easy to understand why a tax on income, levied at a time where we shutdown large sectors of the economy may not have raised as much as predicted. This would be further exacerbated by a Brexit that shrinks trade. It did not lose money though. So whilst you can criticise it for not being as effective as it could be, that would tend to support the idea that further power over tax and redistribution be granted to the Scottish Parliament. I am not sure how you would reach that conclusion tbh. There are always reasons why things can go wrong with forecasts however income tax was implemented after the brexit vote so it wasn't an unknown event. When your budget is based on predicted income then it is pretty important that you get it right. Coming back to your original point, income tax policy from the SNP isn't one that goes down in the success column. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zern Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 12 minutes ago, strichener said: I am not sure how you would reach that conclusion tbh. There are always reasons why things can go wrong with forecasts however income tax was implemented after the brexit vote so it wasn't an unknown event. When your budget is based on predicted income then it is pretty important that you get it right. Coming back to your original point, income tax policy from the SNP isn't one that goes down in the success column. Well, if you are saying that the income redistribution failed to achieve its aims, it would follow that having further powers available to the legislature could facilitate the same policy to greater effect. Not a complete failure, nor a complete success. Partial success. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 The only partial win was the UK government reducing the tax shortfall from £621m to £309m. You are the one making claims about what the income tax increases in Scotland have been used for whereas the reality is that the money budgeted by the government has failed to materilaise. The net affect of the entire change to the tax bands and allowances has been a less than 1% increase in the tax take or approx £120m. This doesn't even cover the funding for the Scottish Child Payments.The Laffer curve was discredited years ago.Even Milton Friedman thought it was garbage. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sophia Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 (edited) Aah, the laffer curve clip, I do think it is incumbent upon me to share it one more time Edited June 20, 2022 by sophia 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 3 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: The Laffer curve was discredited years ago. Even Milton Friedman thought it was garbage. That may we'll be the case. However, here we are dealing with real world tax policies and outcomes. Not economic theory. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Steele Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 Murdo quoting from Ferris Bueller 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 On 20/06/2022 at 11:15, strichener said: That may we'll be the case. However, here we are dealing with real world tax policies and outcomes. Not economic theory. I always wanted to say that to old Milton. Sadly fortunately he’s dead now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted June 22, 2022 Share Posted June 22, 2022 The next King has been shipped off to Rwanda, days after being reported as saying that the Government's people trafficking scheme to there is "appalling". I think they should cancel the whole thing until we know what the hell is going on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 6 hours ago, welshbairn said: The next King has been shipped off to Rwanda, days after being reported as saying that the Government's people trafficking scheme to there is "appalling". I think they should cancel the whole thing until we know what the hell is going on. I started watching the sequel to House of Cards recently. The 'next King' part might not last long if Chuckles can't keep his mouth shut. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongeheid15 Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 Failing to learn lessons from Red Ken killing off the tourist industry in London, clearly. How come THAT WOMAN doesn't get a first name, but "Patrick" does? Blatant favouritism. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 Real missed opportunity from the yoonmemestream to not use Harvey Nic's imo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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