Let's All Laugh at the Royalist Nats and Greens

[Albus Bulbasaur]

2 minutes ago, Thistle_do_nicely said:

Im using all my mobile data

1) sounds like an interesting question actually. Immediately after the last indyref is the first thing coming to mind as it was, for better or worse, a No vote... but then we had rolling back on The Vow sharply after that (thanks gordon), commanding SNP election wins vs. Tory govt after Tory govt, Brexit and shafting Scottish fishermen, ppe scandals...

2 and 3 we're probably on a similar hymn sheet, but its not the SNP in power at Westminster; id argue that merits greater scrutiny.

Aye I'm sure there's enough hours in the day that both can be fairly scrutinised! Appreciate the sincere response. 

[WhiteRoseKillie]

19 minutes ago, Albus Bulbasaur said:

1. When was the last time you would have said it was a justifiable position to wish to remain in the UK? 

2. I'd disagree, they're much the same as most political parties in that respect, they get away with what the public allows. The Tories are worse than them at it undoubtedly but the idea people shouldn't criticise the SNP on a separate thread designed for that is a bit of a weird take. 

3. I'd say it's equally poor when people fail to criticise the SNP. I see this on here quite a lot. Society would be in a far better place if people weren't so tribal and defensive over their favourite political groups. 

I'll have a stab at this.

1. I'd agree it was shortly before the referendum in 2014. I say before, as after the result the Vow and the rest of the bullshit basically disappeared as Scotland got to sit down and eat their porridge.

2. It is, to any reasonably-informed observer, a completely false equivalence. You're comparing a Government which, while a long way from perfect, is largely trying to do its best without complete control of its country and, when some of its members act unacceptably, they're dealt with immediately with.. well, with the most shameless thieves and rogues it has ever been my misfortune to see in power in these islands. I've said before, you shouldn't compare incompetence with kleptocracy.

3. Following from (2), maybe this is because, while not necessarily to everyone's taste poitically, the SNP are far, far removed from the criminal gang currently in power at WM.

I am not (surprise!) a tory voter, and, were I registered still in Scotland, I'm not sure the SNP would get my vote post-independence.

[Boo Khaki]

The thing I find most repugnant is last February we were subjected to a cacophony of noise from ScotCon, ScotLab, and ScotLD personalities alike, all calling for Nicola Sturgeon to resign for 'breaking Parliamentary code', well in advance of those responsible for determining whether she actually had or not releasing their findings. This was aided and abetted by the media lending plenty airtime to these people to vent their spleens, and pre-empt an official announcement that simply was not within their competence to judge.

As it turns out, the FM was completely exonerated, and yet the reaction from these people was not to apologise, or to even pipe down, no, it was a doubling-down and toddler tantrum-esque stomping of the feet and protestations that they were still absolutely adamant the FM had indeed broken Parliamentary Code.

Here we are a little over a year later. We have a UK PM who has repeatedly, demonstrably lied in the House, has a flagrant disregard for parliamentary rules and obligations, and now has been fined for a material breach of the law, with every possibility that might not be the only fine he receives for his contempt for Covid laws that he stood and pontificated about several times in an effort to ensure pleb compliance. 

Has Douglas Ross, as leader of the Scottish branch office of the same party come out and demanded BJ resign? Has he f**k, in fact, he has the temerity to claim that it is vital that BJ remains in office for now.

This is the difference between what happens when a prominent Nationlist personality might have done something untoward, and when a prominent Unionist establishment figure actually has, repeatedly, acted in a manner that makes his position completely untenable. 

'Balance'? Hah, don't make me laugh.

Edited April 14, 2022 by Boo Khaki

[Albus Bulbasaur]

2 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

I'll have a stab at this.

1. I'd agree it was shortly before the referendum in 2014. I say before, as after the result the Vow and the rest of the bullshit basically disappeared as Scotland got to sit down and eat their porridge.

2. It is, to any reasonably-informed observer, a completely false equivalence. You're comparing a Government which, while a long way from perfect, is largely trying to do its best without complete control of its country and, when some of its members act unacceptably, they're dealt with immediately with.. well, with the most shameless thieves and rogues it has ever been my misfortune to see in power in these islands. I've said before, you shouldn't compare incompetence with kleptocracy.

3. Following from (2), maybe this is because, while not necessarily to everyone's taste poitically, the SNP are far, far removed from the criminal gang currently in power at WM.

I am not (surprise!) a tory voter, and, were I registered still in Scotland, I'm not sure the SNP would get my vote post-independence.

Good post. 

I'd think we would agree broadly on the incompetence versus kleptocracy element and is a good reason why it's not a like for like comparison. 

My main and rather boring point was simply that it would be foolish to not apply scrutiny to the SNP because the Tories are bigger c***s. I think you'd agree there's no point when your everyday man or woman should stop scrutinising government at any level. 

[AndyM]

43 minutes ago, Albus Bulbasaur said:

1. When was the last time you would have said it was a justifiable position to wish to remain in the UK? 

2. I'd disagree, they're much the same as most political parties in that respect, they get away with what the public allows. The Tories are worse than them at it undoubtedly but the idea people shouldn't criticise the SNP on a separate thread designed for that is a bit of a weird take. 

3. I'd say it's equally poor when people fail to criticise the SNP. I see this on here quite a lot. Society would be in a far better place if people weren't so tribal and defensive over their favourite political groups. 

Staying in the Union is a justifiable position of course it is. However it's not a position that is really being sold effectively just now. Few people are (except for Twitter loonies)  listening to the Tories SNPBad drone. You want to energise that position? Then start presenting DevoMax actively and positively. The status quo is doomed.  Listening to the ravings of old tweedy mouthpieces like Scotland In Union (average age 70) or groups like The Majority or Think Scotland who are backed by dodgy money and even dodgier characters is not the way to go either. Pressure the Tories into devolving more and more power to Holyrood.  Recognise that hysterical shite from zoomers on social media and personal attacks on Nicola Sturgeon will change the minds of absolutely nobody.

I'm critical of the SNP. They are too centralising as a party and they have been way too close to the fossil fuel industry for my liking for a long time. Some of the things they thought were a good idea plainly were flawed (Named Person). But when they do something good then recognise it. Watching Labour and Tory MSPs go full Bain Principle was an utter embarrassment, voting against Baby Boxes being a particular nadir.

I'm first to admit that some SNP representatives are not very good (although they've still a way to go to reach the bottom of the Tory barrel where you will find Michael Fabricant) and are just a bum on a seat. Some, however extremely clever and capable (Kate Forbes). 

And finally I'll say this. The Yes movement are good at calling out their own when they need slapped down (Wings being a c**t, Grace Brodie moon howling on Twitter) . Scottish Unionism is poor at this (Janela laughing at NS miscarriage, The Majority harassing a young Scottish Poet lassie with mental health issues they were convinced was under orders from the SNP) . You won't convince anyone of anything when its presented by a fringe nutter.

Edited April 14, 2022 by AndyM

[The_Kincardine]

We were living in E'burgh when the Scottish Parliament was opened and we were all full of hope and expectation.  This is the shambles that 15 years of Natterism has reduced it to:

https://twitter.com/Janela_X/status/1516871231017992200

Edited April 20, 2022 by The_Kincardine

[Antlion]

6 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

We were living in E'burgh when the Scottish Parliament was opened and we were all full of hope and expectation.  This is the shambles that 15 years of Natterism has reduced it to:

https://twitter.com/Janela_X/status/1516871231017992200

Link doesn’t work. Another racist, extremist, Europhobic, Islamophobic lunatic you’re promoting, I assume?

 

Edit: Of course it is. It’s this “vile troll”, who has presumably hidden her tweets from all except her like-minded far-right followers. Like you. https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/vile-tory-troll-suspended-party-18981111.amp

Edited April 20, 2022 by Antlion

[welshbairn]

This one presumably.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49433637

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

11 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

We were living in E'burgh when the Scottish Parliament was opened and we were all full of hope and expectation.  This is the shambles that 15 years of Natterism has reduced it to:

https://twitter.com/Janela_X/status/1516871231017992200

We?

[The_Kincardine]

25 minutes ago, Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo said:

We?

'We'.  Yes.

[carpetmonster]

I wasn't. I didn't see the point of a Parliament subservient to Westminster with limited decision making powers. I wanted an independent Scotland as a full member of the EU. The intervening years haven't done much to change that view. 

[git-intae-thum]

25 minutes ago, carpetmonster said:

I wasn't. I didn't see the point of a Parliament subservient to Westminster with limited decision making powers. I wanted an independent Scotland as a full member of the EU. The intervening years haven't done much to change that view. 

Devolution clearly doesn't work.

The party in power in Scotland are at the mercy of Westminster. They are therefore open season for having to implement Westminster policies and cuts.

It's a no win for honest hard-working people in Scotland.

It's only a benefit to half way house political grifters. ( Of which the SNP has become full of after the collapse of SLAB)

Time for independence.

 

[Boo Khaki]

13 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said:

It's a no win for honest hard-working people in Scotland

I can tell you, as a bone-idle chancer, it's no great shakes for us either.

[git-intae-thum]

6 hours ago, Boo Khaki said:

I can tell you, as a bone-idle chancer, it's no great shakes for us either.

Good point

[Benjamin_Nevis]

8 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

We were living in E'burgh when the Scottish Parliament was opened and we were all full of hope and expectation.  This is the shambles that 15 years of Natterism has reduced it to:

https://twitter.com/Janela_X/status/1516871231017992200

Stunned* to see the resident misogynistic bigot promoting the tweets of a truly vile individual who joked about miscarriage. 

_{(*Actually not stunned in the slightest, it's your level now).} 

[Dawson Park Boy]

9 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

We were living in E'burgh when the Scottish Parliament was opened and we were all full of hope and expectation.  This is the shambles that 15 years of Natterism has reduced it to:

https://twitter.com/Janela_X/status/1516871231017992200

I disagree.

I hated the idea.

Voted against it and, I think there was something else as well you could vote against. Anyway, it was No, No, No.

Much preferred to have a Secretary of State and a few junior ministers run the council.

Where are the benefits of devolution?

Everything this SG touches ends up a disaster.

[Dan Steele]

38 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Much preferred to have a Secretary of State and a few junior ministers run the council.

Where are the benefits of devolution?

Everything this SG touches ends up a disaster

I always think it's a shame when this kind of tripe is dragged out. I guess the "too wee, too stupid" argument is a lot easier than actually sitting down and thinking hard about what statements like that actually mean. Fair enough, shout the big hurrah for the outstanding job being done at Westminster if you're of that persuasion, but to just parrot the same old clichés just comes over as trolling at best, and a loathing for Scotland at worst. But the opening line of your post says it all - preferring to be led by Westminster and calling the country you live in a "council". A council. Really?

[AndyM]

13 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

We were living in E'burgh when the Scottish Parliament was opened and we were all full of hope and expectation.  This is the shambles that 15 years of Natterism has reduced it to:

https://twitter.com/Janela_X/status/1516871231017992200

You do yourself no favours posting links from that vile troll into any point you attempt to make. 

[Benjamin_Nevis]

4 hours ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Where are the benefits of devolution?

It upsets absolute roasters like you. 

 

1 hour ago, AndyM said:

You do yourself no favours posting links from that vile troll into any point you attempt to make. 

It's not the first time the old bigot has promoted the tweets of some seriously unpleasant individuals, nor will it be the last. 

[BigDoddyKane]

The political debate is far better in Scotland in terms of discussing issues that actually happen here.  It feels something we are at least partially part of is one important improvement since devolution. It could be far better though and Independence would be the next logical step forward imo for that.

In saying that I think the SNP are full of roasters and are very very boring (Alba are worse) so I wouldnt be surprised the SNP even with all the odds stacked currently in their favour, feck it up

Edited April 21, 2022 by BigDoddyKane