The_Kincardine Posted March 29, 2022 Author Share Posted March 29, 2022 On 28/03/2022 at 09:06, Dawson Park Boy said: It’s interesting that none of the separatists want to address the substantive point which your picture makes. All they seem capable of doing is giving out the usual childish abuse. Pathetic. Yeah. Two of the ScotchNats' complaints - and justifications for partition - are 1. Westminster's poor governance and 2. that Scotland has a government it didn't vote for. Yet 1. the regional administration in Holyrood is not only utterly shit but opaque and mendacious and the ferry debacle illustrates that perfectly. Oh and 2. we have in Holyrood a government that no one voted for! Here's Nippy offering the clarity of leadership and incisiveness we've all come to expect from her: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sophia Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 1 hour ago, The_Kincardine said: Yeah. Two of the ScotchNats' complaints - and justifications for partition - are 1. Westminster's poor governance and 2. that Scotland has a government it didn't vote for. Yet 1. the regional administration in Holyrood is not only utterly shit but opaque and mendacious and the ferry debacle illustrates that perfectly. Oh and 2. we have in Holyrood a government that no one voted for! Here's Nippy offering the clarity of leadership and incisiveness we've all come to expect from her: Not enough tropey type words and a bit ranty 4/10 Will not read again -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 I see that Crossrail thing we've been paying for might open fully next year, 5 years late and £4 billion over budget and counting. Seems like the £115 million spent on Crossrail 2 consultancy fees have gone down the pan too as they've blown their budgets and it probably won't be happening. It might have been daft to try and save or resurrect the Scottish shipbuilding industry with a couple of ferry contracts when existing Polish and Turkish firms with all the skills and infrastructure up and going could have pumped them out reliably and cheaper, but imo it was a worthy gamble that didn't pay off. If they had gone the foreign route though, I don't doubt the Tories and Labour would still be wailing about sending our jobs abroad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingRocketman II Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 11 hours ago, The_Kincardine said: the regional administration in Holyrood is not only utterly shit but opaque, mendacious and SALACIOUS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted March 30, 2022 Author Share Posted March 30, 2022 14 hours ago, welshbairn said: I see that Crossrail thing we've been paying for might open fully next year, 5 years late and £4 billion over budget and counting. Seems like the £115 million spent on Crossrail 2 consultancy fees have gone down the pan too as they've blown their budgets and it probably won't be happening. It might have been daft to try and save or resurrect the Scottish shipbuilding industry with a couple of ferry contracts when existing Polish and Turkish firms with all the skills and infrastructure up and going could have pumped them out reliably and cheaper, but imo it was a worthy gamble that didn't pay off. If they had gone the foreign route though, I don't doubt the Tories and Labour would still be wailing about sending our jobs abroad. How predictable. 1. Wee bit of 'whit aboot' and 2. A fabricated back-story about a 'worthy gamble'. No wonder the Green-Nationalist coalition - a regional administration no one voted for - get away with being shite. This is not just a cock-up but an attempted cover-up and people should be condemning it rather than justifying it. Let's remember that your 'worthy gamble' was actually presented very differently - and that the plan was to produce a dozen ferries for £250M. But that's ScotchNats right there. Buy two for the price of twelve and present it as a worthy gamble with lessons learned. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 1 hour ago, The_Kincardine said: How predictable. 1. Wee bit of 'whit aboot' and 2. A fabricated back-story about a 'worthy gamble'. No wonder the Green-Nationalist coalition - a regional administration no one voted for - get away with being shite. This is not just a cock-up but an attempted cover-up and people should be condemning it rather than justifying it. Let's remember that your 'worthy gamble' was actually presented very differently - and that the plan was to produce a dozen ferries for £250M. But that's ScotchNats right there. Buy two for the price of twelve and present it as a worthy gamble with lessons learned. Watch you don’t OD on that UK Nat grievance. Your fictional family would be devastated. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky88 Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 16 hours ago, welshbairn said: I see that Crossrail thing we've been paying for might open fully next year, 5 years late and £4 billion over budget and counting. Seems like the £115 million spent on Crossrail 2 consultancy fees have gone down the pan too as they've blown their budgets and it probably won't be happening. It might have been daft to try and save or resurrect the Scottish shipbuilding industry with a couple of ferry contracts when existing Polish and Turkish firms with all the skills and infrastructure up and going could have pumped them out reliably and cheaper, but imo it was a worthy gamble that didn't pay off. If they had gone the foreign route though, I don't doubt the Tories and Labour would still be wailing about sending our jobs abroad. Olympic level whataboutery 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 1 hour ago, The_Kincardine said: How predictable. 1. Wee bit of 'whit aboot' and 2. A fabricated back-story about a 'worthy gamble'. No wonder the Green-Nationalist coalition - a regional administration no one voted for - get away with being shite. This is not just a cock-up but an attempted cover-up and people should be condemning it rather than justifying it. Let's remember that your 'worthy gamble' was actually presented very differently - and that the plan was to produce a dozen ferries for £250M. But that's ScotchNats right there. Buy two for the price of twelve and present it as a worthy gamble with lessons learned. General Dynamics Ajax. Close on 10 billion for something that might still get cancelled because its more dangerous to it's crews than the opposing army. It's not whataboutery to note that all governments make decisions based on things other than pure monetary efficiency. General Dynamics was chosen at least partly on securing jobs in South Wales, and the result is a procurement disaster that dwarfs anything up here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 1 minute ago, sparky88 said: Olympic level whataboutery I know, the cheek of a home counties Tory mocking a Scottish infrastructure project going wrong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 (edited) The ferries which will one day be built will cost a 1/3 of what the UK have spent on storing, just storing PPE that will never ever be used.* For the billions they wasted on actually buying PPE (from their friends and cronies) we could build enough hulls to lie them end to end and walk from Cairnryan to Larne. *ETA not used because it is unusable due to being poor quality, not appropriate for use or made using modern slavery, not because it wasn't needed. Edited March 30, 2022 by williemillersmoustache 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 (edited) The fundamental problem with these ferries was the awarding of the contracts to Fergusons in the first place. I recall discussing the issue at the time with a couple of locals with long previous experience in the shipbuilding industry and they both expressed strong reservations on the grounds that the decision was based more on chest-beating pride and politics rather than a cold hard assessment of the yard's capabilities. It was a bit like assuming that because Fergie's Aberdeen team was stellar in the 1980's they still are today. It was decision made for possibly honourable reasons, but it was the wrong one nevertheless. The funny thing is I don't recall Jim McColl expressing any great objection to anything back then. Edited March 30, 2022 by O'Kelly Isley III 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lichtgilphead Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 22 hours ago, The_Kincardine said: we have in Holyrood a government that no one voted for! 5 hours ago, The_Kincardine said: the Green-Nationalist coalition - a regional administration no one voted for I see Kincy's got a new catchphrase. Pity it's not true. He appears to have forgotten that we get 2 votes in Holyrood elections. Like most folk on P'n'B, I hoped for a snp majority, but (just in case), I voted tactically on the list. I'm just one of many on here and across Scotland that voted snp/green & ended up with an snp/green government 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 Clydeside seems to regard shipbuilding in the way that little Englanders regard the British Empire The sooner people come to terms with their loss and move on the better 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMCs Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 12 hours ago, topcat(The most tip top) said: Clydeside seems to regard shipbuilding in the way that little Englanders regard the British Empire The sooner people come to terms with their loss and move on the better Sure that's fine if the Scottish Government isn't spending taxpayers money on trying to save Clydeside jobs and pick winners in the market. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 2 hours ago, DMCs said: Sure that's fine if the Scottish Government isn't spending taxpayers money on trying to save Clydeside jobs and pick winners in the market. I think you may have missed the point. I wasn't excusing the Scottish Government for succumbing to political temptation but instead examining why that temptation existed in the first place. Regardless of political stripe that pressure would have been there. Of course you could hypothesise that a politician of the calibre of Jim Murphy would have had both the judgement and strength of character to deliver the unpalatable truth to the people of Inverclyde and while I'd be sceptical I couldn't actually disprove you. You can't say he wouldn't have been tempted though! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMCs Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 2 hours ago, topcat(The most tip top) said: I think you may have missed the point. I wasn't excusing the Scottish Government for succumbing to political temptation but instead examining why that temptation existed in the first place. Regardless of political stripe that pressure would have been there. Of course you could hypothesise that a politician of the calibre of Jim Murphy would have had both the judgement and strength of character to deliver the unpalatable truth to the people of Inverclyde and while I'd be sceptical I couldn't actually disprove you. You can't say he wouldn't have been tempted though! I'd be extremely sceptical of that as well! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted March 31, 2022 Author Share Posted March 31, 2022 21 hours ago, lichtgilphead said: I see Kincy's got a new catchphrase. Pity it's not true. He appears to have forgotten that we get 2 votes in Holyrood elections. Like most folk on P'n'B, I hoped for a snp majority, but (just in case), I voted tactically on the list. I'm just one of many on here and across Scotland that voted snp/green & ended up with an snp/green government The amount of self-delusion required to be a Nat is astonishing. No one voted for the local administration that there is in Holyrood. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted March 31, 2022 Author Share Posted March 31, 2022 Back to ferries. I hadn't picked up on one of the hulks failing a stability test: Never mind an unstable boat with painted-on windows and fake funnels. They went to the bother of painting its name in Gaelic to show it's truly Scoattish: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 5 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said: The amount of self-delusion required to be a Nat is astonishing. No one voted for the local administration that there is in Holyrood. Pure whining UK nationalist grievance. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sophia Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 2 hours ago, The_Kincardine said: Back to ferries. I hadn't picked up on one of the hulks failing a stability test: Never mind an unstable boat with painted-on windows and fake funnels. They went to the bother of painting its name in Gaelic to show it's truly Scoattish: What is your basis for repeating the claim of painted on windows? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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