Seven years on

[KingRocketman II]

On 21/09/2021 at 19:57, Sortmeout said:

Not saying they wouldn’t accept it but longer term it would cause lots of issues so let’s just stay with what we’ve got. Its costing a lot of money to fuel my X5 at the moment but other than that everything seems to be going ok.

aye they just eat up the fuel but worth it in my opinion. here is mine below - you can hang flags etc off the back of them and turns quite a few heads. 

Edited September 23, 2021 by KingRocketman II
pic

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Absolute  at @Sortmeout's utterly desperate trolling here. This is worse than your efforts on the Dundee threads for the last three years.

[Richey Edwards]

On 21/09/2021 at 11:17, jamamafegan said:

I find it pretty concerning to see the amount of folk who are saying they would vote No because they don’t like the SNP. It’s a frankly ludicrous stance to take. Independence is and always will be bigger than any one party. The SNP are merely the main vehicle trying to drive the us towards that goal. I despise the Alba party but if it was them that happened to be the main vehicle it still wouldn’t change my stance on independence. The principles of independence and reasons for voting for it are completely separate from party politics. It’s about realising the bigger picture.

In my mind, independence is a no brainer. We don’t have to speculate what the alternative to independence is, we already know what it is from the past 7 years - and it is fucking grim. The UK is in the gutter, led by a totally corrupt Conservative government that we never voted for, backed up by the right-wing British media, a country full of racists and hate. It’s hard to see how our prospects will ever improve if we do not gain our independence. I’m in my late twenties and this is the future that I am faced with. It is utterly depressing.

If people don't like the SNP, they should vote for independence. 

Because the SNP will most likely splinter and eventually disappear after independence. 

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

On 19/09/2021 at 16:49, BallochSonsFan said:

It's nice that you believe all that garbage, but it's not actually true.

Must be great for an administration to know that no matter how badly they run things, they can trot out "Westminster", "levers" or "referendum" and it somehow justifies their incompetence and inept governance.

The Tories have done it with the EU and foreigners. 

People seem to be confused between the SNP policies in government, and the benefits of an independent Scotland. These are two completely different and seperate things. 

Whoever governs Scotland after independence, the main benefit is that they will 100% be enacting Scotland's wishes. The SNP's record is irrelevant...they're merely the main vehicle for independence. 

Once we have it, my guess that a new Scottish Labour party will form the first government. 

 

 

I

[Antlion]

9 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

The Tories have done it with the EU and foreigners. 

People seem to be confused between the SNP policies in government, and the benefits of an independent Scotland. These are two completely different and seperate things. 

Whoever governs Scotland after independence, the main benefit is that they will 100% be enacting Scotland's wishes. The SNP's record is irrelevant...they're merely the main vehicle for independence. 

Once we have it, my guess that a new Scottish Labour party will form the first government. 

 

Agree up until your last point. I’d be voting for a far more radical, republican party in an independent Scotland. The SNP would no doubt try and be as moderate in altering the constitution as possible, which would make gaining independence pretty pointless. However, I very much doubt a Scottish Labour Party would be in any shape to form a government for a few years. At least until it accepted independence, it would probably still be the gangsterish outfit of the old branch office, comprising the same faces (Jackie Baillie as an independent Scotland’s first leader? Sweat-shop Sarwar? No thanks.). I reckon you’d be looking at about five-ten years of coalition governments before a real Scottish Labour Party finally cleared the decks and offered an actual vision for a Scottish state.

[scottsdad]

Reading those old news clips reminds me that this shit will just happen again in the next referendum. They will lie and threaten and cajole. 

The one that gets utterly let off the hook is Gordon Brown.

Cross-border organ transplant network ‘at risk’ - this was utter lies, and called out. It was a barefaced lie to scare ill people into voting no.

Scottish independence: Brown says Scotland's pensions protected by UK - and let's not forget Irn Broon visiting care homes and telling pensioners that their pensions are "at risk" from independence. The pensions minister at the time had refuted that, but the very threat was enough for some older folk. 

His claims were not distortions or exaggerations. He lied.   

[NotThePars]

The current dominant wing of the SNP will be the governing party if they gain independence and want to remain in power. There’s zero feasible governing alternative and a load of FM regens aren’t going to suddenly spawn day one of an independent Scotland. The dominant ideology of post-independent Scotland will almost definitely be the same cosy New Labourism that dominates atm.

[Antlion]

7 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

Reading those old news clips reminds me that this shit will just happen again in the next referendum. They will lie and threaten and cajole. 

The one that gets utterly let off the hook is Gordon Brown.

Cross-border organ transplant network ‘at risk’ - this was utter lies, and called out. It was a barefaced lie to scare ill people into voting no.

 

His claims were not distortions or exaggerations. He lied.   

The worst was his claiming that Scottish kids would be condemned to death by virtue of being denied treatment at specialised English hospitals. The hospitals, if I recall correctly, were swift to deny this would be the case. Brown and his team had simply invented a (sick) ploy to threaten and frighten parents with ill and vulnerable children.
 

Yet the media still presents this disgusting, corrupt, lying old con artist as some sort of totem worshipped by us thick jocks as an oracle. He’s often presented as still commanding “respect” in Scotland whilst having been seen through by our (presumably more intelligent and less tribal) neighbours. Any outlet which continues to platform Brown is tacitly approving his twisted lies; I can’t recall any daring to actually point them out to him (or when reporting his latest attempts to bullshit voters). 

[Granny Danger]

24 minutes ago, Antlion said:

The worst was his claiming that Scottish kids would be condemned to death by virtue of being denied treatment at specialised English hospitals. The hospitals, if I recall correctly, were swift to deny this would be the case. Brown and his team had simply invented a (sick) ploy to threaten and frighten parents with ill and vulnerable children.
 

Yet the media still presents this disgusting, corrupt, lying old con artist as some sort of totem worshipped by us thick jocks as an oracle. He’s often presented as still commanding “respect” in Scotland whilst having been seen through by our (presumably more intelligent and less tribal) neighbours. Any outlet which continues to platform Brown is tacitly approving his twisted lies; I can’t recall any daring to actually point them out to him (or when reporting his latest attempts to bullshit voters). 

I have had an interest in politics since about 1970.  Politicians have always told lies and the Tories have always got away with it more due to influence/control of the MSM by their supporters.

Nonetheless there has been a massive change in the past 50+years.  Whereas a politician caught in a lie usually paid the price that is no longer happening; we’ve seen that over Independence and Brexit in particular.

I don’t really blame the politicians, I blame the fact that large portions of the electorate have become very tribal.

”I wanted Brexit and I’m not bothering that [inset name] blatantly and repeatedly lied during the campaign.  Nor will I acknowledge that these lies are having a real negative effect on the economy and country because that would be admitting I was wrong and having control of our borders, in theory if not in practice, makes it all worthwhile anyway”.

This is why someone like Johnson can become PM; his blatant lie count is enormous but a very large minority of the population just don’t care.

 

[WhiteRoseKillie]

Agree up until your last point. I’d be voting for a far more radical, republican party in an independent Scotland. The SNP would no doubt try and be as moderate in altering the constitution as possible, which would make gaining independence pretty pointless. However, I very much doubt a Scottish Labour Party would be in any shape to form a government for a few years. At least until it accepted independence, it would probably still be the gangsterish outfit of the old branch office, comprising the same faces (Jackie Baillie as an independent Scotland’s first leader? Sweat-shop Sarwar? No thanks.). I reckon you’d be looking at about five-ten years of coalition governments before a real Scottish Labour Party finally cleared the decks and offered an actual vision for a Scottish state.

I tHink Bob's meaning an actual socialist party with absolutely no connection with the previous branch office or the shysters currently doing their best to ensure perpetual Tory rule at Westminster. Scotland has an absolute appetite for such a party, and will be but far the better country for it. Mhairi Black would be an example of the kind of folk I'd like to see running the country.

[KingRocketman II]

6 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

2 hours ago, Antlion said:

Agree up until your last point. I’d be voting for a far more radical, republican party in an independent Scotland. The SNP would no doubt try and be as moderate in altering the constitution as possible, which would make gaining independence pretty pointless. However, I very much doubt a Scottish Labour Party would be in any shape to form a government for a few years. At least until it accepted independence, it would probably still be the gangsterish outfit of the old branch office, comprising the same faces (Jackie Baillie as an independent Scotland’s first leader? Sweat-shop Sarwar? No thanks.). I reckon you’d be looking at about five-ten years of coalition governments before a real Scottish Labour Party finally cleared the decks and offered an actual vision for a Scottish state.

I tHink Bob's meaning an actual socialist party with absolutely no connection with the previous branch office or the shysters currently doing their best to ensure perpetual Tory rule at Westminster. 

you can bet your mortgage on the fact that if Scotland were to become independent, pretty much every current SLAB MSP will say that they have actually supported independence all along and will be putting themselves forward as reps for the new SLAB. 

[Jeff Venom]

The worst was his claiming that Scottish kids would be condemned to death by virtue of being denied treatment at specialised English hospitals. The hospitals, if I recall correctly, were swift to deny this would be the case. Brown and his team had simply invented a (sick) ploy to threaten and frighten parents with ill and vulnerable children.

The same Gordon Brown who happily used his sick child as a political tool opposite David Cameron who did the same in the lead up to the 2010 election as they battled over who loved the NHS more.
The same Gordon Brown that, his Premiership actually put to the vote of the electorate, was essentially emptied.
He can absolutely f**k off, so hard.

[Antlion]

8 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

2 hours ago, Antlion said:

Agree up until your last point. I’d be voting for a far more radical, republican party in an independent Scotland. The SNP would no doubt try and be as moderate in altering the constitution as possible, which would make gaining independence pretty pointless. However, I very much doubt a Scottish Labour Party would be in any shape to form a government for a few years. At least until it accepted independence, it would probably still be the gangsterish outfit of the old branch office, comprising the same faces (Jackie Baillie as an independent Scotland’s first leader? Sweat-shop Sarwar? No thanks.). I reckon you’d be looking at about five-ten years of coalition governments before a real Scottish Labour Party finally cleared the decks and offered an actual vision for a Scottish state.

I tHink Bob's meaning an actual socialist party with absolutely no connection with the previous branch office or the shysters currently doing their best to ensure perpetual Tory rule at Westminster. Scotland has an absolute appetite for such a party, and will be but far the better country for it. Mhairi Black would be an example of the kind of folk I'd like to see running the country.

That would be ideal - but I can’t see it being named “Labour” and not attracting (and gaining) the dregs of SLAB. You just know that the likes of Baillie - unemployable in any other walk of life - would attempt to play a role as grandees and experienced statespeople (for a state whose existence they opposed).

Looking at Clown Shoe’s selection of screenshots, you can really trace SLAB (and thus Labour) slowly killing itself off in Scotland. It appears they were never able to make more than the thinnest case for their support of the UK - which really just amounted to Scotland governing itself being bad. This made them look dogmatic and, stupidly, they just gave up and tried to buy into the idea that they were staunch unionists as a matter of patriotism and simple ideology.

The problem, which anyone could have foreseen, was that the Tories would always beat them hands down when it came to playing up jingoistic UK nationalism. Labour were and are offering UK flag-shaggers a tatty, crusty, 90s era lads’ mag whereas the Tories are handing out free subscriptions to Pornhub Premium. It’ll be difficult for a Scottish socialist-leaning party called “Labour” to row back from the pathetic, watery UK nationalism that SLAB and its masters have associated with the brand.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Going back to the day itself seven years ago, my main memories are getting up at 5am to get ready for a weekend in Skye (my sister was getting married at Eilean Donan Castle) and watching the results, whilst eating perhaps the most disgusting incarnation of porridge in human history. I stupidly and sleepily said "Yeah" when my partner offered to make mine, forgetting she likes it to have the consistency of runny soup. So a double whammy of an abysmal breakfast and Scotland shiting itself en-masse was fairly seethe-inducing. I was more pissed off by the former, the latter was entirely unsurprising. 

On the plus side the wedding was superb and I had a cracking day on the Cuillin Ridge dealing with the hangover. 

[Jeff Venom]

Going back to the day itself seven years ago, my main memories are getting up at 5am to get ready for a weekend in Skye (my sister was getting married at Eilean Donan Castle) and watching the results, whilst eating perhaps the most disgusting incarnation of porridge in human history. I stupidly and sleepily said "Yeah" when my partner offered to make mine, forgetting she likes it to have the consistency of runny soup. So a double whammy of an abysmal breakfast and Scotland shiting itself en-masse was fairly seethe-inducing. I was more pissed off by the former, the latter was entirely unsurprising. 
On the plus side the wedding was superb and I had a cracking day on the Cuillin Ridge dealing with the hangover. 

Crucially, did you let P&B know at the time what you were having for breakfast?

[Arch Stanton]

 

 

[WhiteRoseKillie]

That would be ideal - but I can’t see it being named “Labour” and not attracting (and gaining) the dregs of SLAB. You just know that the likes of Baillie - unemployable in any other walk of life - would attempt to play a role as grandees and experienced statespeople (for a state whose existence they opposed).
Looking at Clown Shoe’s selection of screenshots, you can really trace SLAB (and thus Labour) slowly killing itself off in Scotland. It appears they were never able to make more than the thinnest case for their support of the UK - which really just amounted to Scotland governing itself being bad. This made them look dogmatic and, stupidly, they just gave up and tried to buy into the idea that they were staunch unionists as a matter of patriotism and simple ideology.
The problem, which anyone could have foreseen, was that the Tories would always beat them hands down when it came to playing up jingoistic UK nationalism. Labour were and are offering UK flag-shaggers a tatty, crusty, 90s era lads’ mag whereas the Tories are handing out free subscriptions to Pornhub Premium. It’ll be difficult for a Scottish socialist-leaning party called “Labour” to row back from the pathetic, watery UK nationalism that SLAB and its masters have associated with the brand.

Yep, and there's absolutely no reason to use the label, with the inherent toxicity from the likes of Blair, Murphy, Brown, Baillie, and even now from Starmer. The word "Labour" is becoming more toxic than "socialism", repelling voters across the political spectrum.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

3 minutes ago, Jeff Venom said:

6 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said:

Going back to the day itself seven years ago, my main memories are getting up at 5am to get ready for a weekend in Skye (my sister was getting married at Eilean Donan Castle) and watching the results, whilst eating perhaps the most disgusting incarnation of porridge in human history. I stupidly and sleepily said "Yeah" when my partner offered to make mine, forgetting she likes it to have the consistency of runny soup. So a double whammy of an abysmal breakfast and Scotland shiting itself en-masse was fairly seethe-inducing. I was more pissed off by the former, the latter was entirely unsurprising. 
On the plus side the wedding was superb and I had a cracking day on the Cuillin Ridge dealing with the hangover. 

Crucially, did you let P&B know at the time what you were having for breakfast?

Shite, I think I forgot 

[Jeff Venom]

Shite, I think I forgot [emoji23]

Ach you had a wedding to prepare for as well as monitor the ref result, a lot happening tbf.

[NotThePars]

2 hours ago, Antlion said:

That would be ideal - but I can’t see it being named “Labour” and not attracting (and gaining) the dregs of SLAB. You just know that the likes of Baillie - unemployable in any other walk of life - would attempt to play a role as grandees and experienced statespeople (for a state whose existence they opposed).

Looking at Clown Shoe’s selection of screenshots, you can really trace SLAB (and thus Labour) slowly killing itself off in Scotland. It appears they were never able to make more than the thinnest case for their support of the UK - which really just amounted to Scotland governing itself being bad. This made them look dogmatic and, stupidly, they just gave up and tried to buy into the idea that they were staunch unionists as a matter of patriotism and simple ideology.

The problem, which anyone could have foreseen, was that the Tories would always beat them hands down when it came to playing up jingoistic UK nationalism. Labour were and are offering UK flag-shaggers a tatty, crusty, 90s era lads’ mag whereas the Tories are handing out free subscriptions to Pornhub Premium. It’ll be difficult for a Scottish socialist-leaning party called “Labour” to row back from the pathetic, watery UK nationalism that SLAB and its masters have associated with the brand.

The last year of Starmerism should highlight that this is what any successor Labour Party in Scotland will be. They don't want any progressive ideas and they'll ruthlessly pursue anyone who does as well as anyone who threatens their cushy leadership positions.