Seven years on

[Scary Bear]

3 hours ago, BallochSonsFan said:

We've had 14 years of SNP administration. The first 4 years or so were generally not too bad. Then they announced the referendum and the SNP decided that the day job was no longer important. We've had 7 years of the SNP refusing to run Stoneybridge properly and using every failed target and poor performance as a chance to stoke grievances.

It's been an absolute horror show.

Regardless of anybody's views on independence, the reality is that the SNP are no longer focused on the day job. They havent been since the 2014 referendum. Thats something that everybody in Scotland, regardless of whether you''re pro indy or pro union, should be concerned about.. The current SNP administration seem to have this weird notion that incompetence in Stoneybridge doesnt really matter and that  it's ok to accept monumental failures of governance  because independence trumps everything else..

It doesnt. Scotland deserves far better from Holyrood than it's had over the past 7 or 8 years. We're seeing public services suffer and governance in Scotland's councils and devolved assembly in disarray because there's a belief that the only thing that matters is the next referendum. No matter whether you voted yes or no in 2014, your devolved assembly and local authorities are failing you.

To be fair, they went off on a failed anti-Brexit campaign for a few years. That blip apart, they seem to be half-heartedly going back to campaigning for indyref2, albeit with the caveat that COVID-19 is still the top priority.

In general though I agree with you. Not been much (good) happening at Holyrood in the last 7 years and my local council are a shambles. Local council blames it on having no money. 

Edited September 19, 2021 by Scary Bear

[NotThePars]

I voted Yes in 2014, watched the results come in then went to Dundee the next day and got tanked up and saw AME at the Rooms. I remember it being a heated time but it was cool that everyone had an opinion and was engaged. The turnout of 85% I believe is an aberration in a time of mass disengagement and I think the country was broadly the better for it. Compare and contrast with the miserable Brexit referendum that culminated in the murder of a sitting MP that to this day hasn't had any serious reflection on what caused it. 

Scotland since then has felt pretty stagnant. Things have been getting gradually worse even if it's a much slower pace than down in England but the biggest issue is how stagnant the politics has been. There's been nothing close to the general feeling that existed in the summer of 2014 and 2017-18 when Labour were in the ascendancy but correspondingly the crushing of the left in Labour has made the politics of England more miserable than it could ever possibly be here where we're governed in a sort of cosy New Labourite progressive consensus minus the casual nastiness that typified the 2000s.

Personally I miss the lack of cynicism I had back then. I was worked like a mark in the build up to indyref and was all in on the bright future independence would usher in whereas now it's a case of "well better away from these awful c***s even if it will still be largely shite."

[Baxter Parp]

1 hour ago, BallochSonsFan said:

If you think that the money tied up Ferguson Marine - a state owned yard that hasnt secured any further contracts and can't finish the boats they're currently building, is acceptable then wire in.Or the Covid care homes scandal.

Ferguson Marine had to be nationalised and is now "on track".

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/troubled-ferguson-marine-on-its-journey-to-recovery-96sklhv7z

1 hour ago, BallochSonsFan said:

Or the Covid care homes scandal.

Caused by the "four nations approach"

1 hour ago, BallochSonsFan said:

Or the past 2 years of exams fiascos.

What exam fiascos?

 

1 hour ago, BallochSonsFan said:

Or the shambles that is the SNHS.

The best performing shambles in the UK.

1 hour ago, BallochSonsFan said:

Or the public money wasted on pursuing cases against the Rangers administrators and spivs - action that'll cost the tax payer north of £30million..

The COPFS is independent of the Scottish Government.

1 hour ago, BallochSonsFan said:

Or the state owned airport that has about 5 flights per day that we can't find a buyer for.

Which made a profit of £2m last year.

1 hour ago, BallochSonsFan said:

Or the failure to get the Scottish welfare administration body ready to assume responsibility for Scottish benefits, to the extent where we had to ask DWP nationally to keep administering benefits for us.

This fucking bullshit again. https://www.socialsecurity.gov.scot/benefits

1 hour ago, BallochSonsFan said:

Cuts to public services..

Funding to every council in Scotland has increased in real terms.

1 hour ago, BallochSonsFan said:

But aye. Toaries or some other such shite. Eventually after 14 years in charge you run out of the right to blame others for the absolute state that Scotland is in.

Aye, that's why Scotland and its cities are routinely voted amongst the best places to live.

[BallochSonsFan]

2 hours ago, Baxter Parp said:

Ferguson Marine had to be nationalised and is now "on track".

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/troubled-ferguson-marine-on-its-journey-to-recovery-96sklhv7z

Caused by the "four nations approach"

What exam fiascos?

 

The best performing shambles in the UK.

The COPFS is independent of the Scottish Government.

Which made a profit of £2m last year.

This fucking bullshit again. https://www.socialsecurity.gov.scot/benefits

Funding to every council in Scotland has increased in real terms.

Aye, that's why Scotland and its cities are routinely voted amongst the best places to live.

It's nice that you believe all that garbage, but it's not actually true.

Must be great for an administration to know that no matter how badly they run things, they can trot out "Westminster", "levers" or "referendum" and it somehow justifies their incompetence and inept governance.

[sophia]

24 minutes ago, BallochSonsFan said:

It's nice that you believe all that garbage, but it's not actually true.

Must be great for an administration to know that no matter how badly they run things, they can trot out "Westminster", "levers" or "referendum" and it somehow justifies their incompetence and inept governance.

Was it the snp / Nicola Sturgeon / Scottish Government that prosecuted the rangers "spivs"?

 

[Baxter Parp]

42 minutes ago, BallochSonsFan said:

It's nice that you believe all that garbage, but it's not actually true.

SNPBAD.

[scottsdad]

The 7 years since the referendum have been entirely reactive for Scotland. In those 7 years we've had 2 general elections, the Brexit referendum, the trauma of actual Brexit negotiations and execution. Scottish elections and a pandemic. No Scottish government would have been able to put forward any meaningful blueprint of what they wanted Scotland to be after all that. And when they have had time and space to do something, it's been tiddlywinks.

What we could have seen is how a Scottish government is capable of reacting and, indeed, getting ahead of various issues that came up. But in the end this SNP government is out of steam, out of ideas and incapable of thought. It amazes me that many people still believe that Sturgeon had a "good" pandemic and Johnson a "bad" pandemic when their approaches were virtually the same, as were the outcomes. 

[Arch Stanton]

"Hey independent Scotland, come and join a political union with England and Wales.

All we want is that you give up to us all the revenue you''d make from the natural resources off your shores such as oil and gas, give us control of the fisheries off your coastlines, forego all the duty and other taxation you'd raise from whisky production, put all of the energy you're able to create from renewables such as hydro, wind and wave into 'The National Grid'.

We'll take you out of the economic union with the EU because that's what we think is best even though it will devastate you farming and fishing industries.

Doesn't all of that sound good?

What you'll get in return is some money from us, as and when we see fit but with plenty resentment; a  nuclear arms replacement which not only will you not need but we'll site it less than 30 miles from Glasgow, and we'll include it in "GERS" which is something we'll make up later on.

So come on Scotland, vote for Better Together".

[speckled tangerine]

Who'd have thunk that seven years on there would be f**k all on the supermarket shelves and we'd be burning the corpses of dead benefit claimants to keep warm in winter 2021.

Marvellous times!

[doulikefish]

[Salt n Vinegar]

Interesting interview with Kwasi Kwarteng on Radio Scotland. He kept saying that there would be no shortage of energy supply.  Strictly speaking, he might be correct but there's eff all point in there being plenty of energy out there if you can't afford to pay for it. 

[jamamafegan]

I find it pretty concerning to see the amount of folk who are saying they would vote No because they don’t like the SNP. It’s a frankly ludicrous stance to take. Independence is and always will be bigger than any one party. The SNP are merely the main vehicle trying to drive the us towards that goal. I despise the Alba party but if it was them that happened to be the main vehicle it still wouldn’t change my stance on independence. The principles of independence and reasons for voting for it are completely separate from party politics. It’s about realising the bigger picture.

In my mind, independence is a no brainer. We don’t have to speculate what the alternative to independence is, we already know what it is from the past 7 years - and it is fucking grim. The UK is in the gutter, led by a totally corrupt Conservative government that we never voted for, backed up by the right-wing British media, a country full of racists and hate. It’s hard to see how our prospects will ever improve if we do not gain our independence. I’m in my late twenties and this is the future that I am faced with. It is utterly depressing.

[Clown Job]

Just now, jamamafegan said:

I find it pretty concerning to see the amount of folk who are saying they would vote No because they don’t like the SNP. 

It’s the only real argument unionist have 

If they make independence all about the SNP then they don’t have to argue about pros and cons of remaining in a lopsided union, when they can just argue about the SNP being shite instead 

See the Scottish Parliament as an example, having a pro majority independence referendum doesn’t count unless it’s a majority SNP government only 

[the snudge]

Voted yes in 2014. I'd vote yes again inspite of the SNP. My vote for independence next time won't be as strong though, I won't be campaigning or getting as involved as 2014. 

I really think if the SNP promised to disband after a set period of time post independence would help. 

Definitely need a proper currency plan. 

[Kaz]

Like others I voted yes and I would undoubtedly vote yes again. I would do this despite the SNP and not because of them, I am utterly sickened by them and their behaviour at present.

[TheScarf]

I was a soft Yes in 2014 but due to Brexit, Boris Johnson, Priti Patel wanting asylum seekers to drown in the English Channel, I'm now a hard Yes.  The Union needs broken up,  there also needs to be a United Ireland. I long for the day that the Butcher's Apron contain no blue or doesn't exist at all.  The gammons in this country and in England would probably spontaneously combust.  It would be a glorious sight.

The SNP are fucking useless, however.

[speckled tangerine]

I feel genuinely sorry for these "red wall" types who voted Conservative as well as those who didn't in sink estates all over the shop. They have absolutely no chance these days. Starmer's picking fights with his own party when the enemy is getting away with complete murder

I'd happily accept being worse off for a spell with the anticipation things will improve, as opposed to the illusion that this "great power" is on the way to some magical renaissance. It's not.

The United Kingdom is completely fucked. It's over and incredibly, the collapse is happening on a daily basis in real time.

 

[HTG]

Yes then, yes now and yes until it happens. 

In the process, I'm sure there is a better path for England in all of this. There are millions of decent people not being represented by what's happening to the country just now. That might be better achieved via a D'Hondt approach. 

[Kejan]

I'm still Yes, but I've lost most of the enthusiasm for it probably due to a mix of things - Brexit, Covid, and just general weak, timid and a lot of wankers being in the SNP e.g that hawk McDonald is an absolute roaster.

I have quite a Yes heavy family and friends, and most voted for them in May, but most of it was out of the least worst option on the ballot. A few who were big independence supporters have lost their 'fight' as well, and I think if the SNP continue with more of the same ol' then these people won't vote for them or vote at all.

 

[NotThePars]

I think basing your opinion on independence on the SNP’s governance is fair enough even if I don’t but it skips into unreasonableness the minute you don’t do the equivalent with the nativist psychos down south and the gleeful elite class who enable them.

I don’t like the SNP but their insipid cowardice and the generally pisspoor Scottish media and political climate is miles preferable to the one south of the border.