Seven years on

[Baxter Parp]

1 hour ago, The_Kincardine said:

This is the fly in the ScotchNat ointment - and one which the blood and soil mutton-heads ignore.

We Scots have punched above our weight in our delightful unitary nation-state - the successor to the prior kingdoms of Scotland and England - since Britain's first parliament was inaugurated by Queen Anne in May 1707.  

What the dull-witted ScotchNats are asking for is - in actuality - independence from themselves.  This makes it the worst and most ignorant independence movement ever in the entirety of human history.

So....imperialism...and...slavery...and exploitation...are fucking good things that we should rejoice in?

 

Are you mental?

[Baxter Parp]

9 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

Eh?  ScotchGov has the powers and the money to do shite better.

It doesn't.

Show your workings, Kincy, please do.

[coprolite]

I live in Wales so never had a vote and still wouldn't. 

I didn't support independence for Scotland and still don't. 

In 2014 I thought the arguments were finely balanced and that it wouldn't have been in Scotland's interest to leave the UK. 

The arguments are still fairly finely balanced but it seems clear that Scotland would benefit from getting out. 

Former  industrial areas in  England and Wales will be doubly fucked without Scotland dragging the UK vote left. But those areas did vote for brexit so i can't blame Scottish residents for saying f**k em. 

I'd like Scots to be more interested in improving the UK but if the love's gone you're as well making a clean break.  I'd do the same myself. Just remember you're leaving Wales with an abusive partner. 

[Highlandmagar]

2 hours ago, coprolite said:

I live in Wales so never had a vote and still wouldn't. 

I didn't support independence for Scotland and still don't. 

In 2014 I thought the arguments were finely balanced and that it wouldn't have been in Scotland's interest to leave the UK. 

The arguments are still fairly finely balanced but it seems clear that Scotland would benefit from getting out. 

Former  industrial areas in  England and Wales will be doubly fucked without Scotland dragging the UK vote left. But those areas did vote for brexit so i can't blame Scottish residents for saying f**k em. 

I'd like Scots to be more interested in improving the UK but if the love's gone you're as well making a clean break.  I'd do the same myself. Just remember you're leaving Wales with an abusive partner. 

I regards to Wales, although you have a Labour administration,  I think that for voting for Brexit, you enjoy being abused by your partner. 

[Theroadlesstravelled]

It’s too soon. Not enough ”whit aboot ma pension?” types have died yet.

[ICTJohnboy]

5 hours ago, coprolite said:

 

Former  industrial areas in  England and Wales will be doubly fucked without Scotland dragging the UK vote left. But those areas did vote for brexit so i can't blame Scottish residents for saying f**k em. 

I'd like Scots to be more interested in improving the UK but if the love's gone you're as well making a clean break.  I'd do the same myself. Just remember you're leaving Wales with an abusive partner. 

 

If anything, Scotland has dragged the UK vote to the right, thanks to the loss of 55+ labour seats since 1997. 

Labour took the Scottish vote for granted for far too long.

 

 

Edited September 19, 2021 by ICTJohnboy

[Scary Bear]

2 hours ago, Theroadlesstravelled said:

It’s too soon. Not enough ”whit aboot ma pension?” types have died yet.

Wont there just be more “whit aboot ma pension?” types to replace them and more pensioners in general as we’re supposedly living longer?

[Dan Steele]

6 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

ScotchGov has the powers and the money to do shite better.

Some powers, some money. That's the bloody problem. And can you stop the totally nonsensical 'blood & soil' gibberish. 

[strichener]

Seven wasted years.  We are much further from independence now that at any point in the last decade.

Anecdotally there is nowhere near the enthusiasm for independence in my social circle as there was in 2014.

[Dawson Park Boy]

9 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

This is the fly in the ScotchNat ointment - and one which the blood and soil mutton-heads ignore.

We Scots have punched above our weight in our delightful unitary nation-state - the successor to the prior kingdoms of Scotland and England - since Britain's first parliament was inaugurated by Queen Anne in May 1707.  

What the dull-witted ScotchNats are asking for is - in actuality - independence from themselves.  This makes it the worst and most ignorant independence movement ever in the entirety of human history.

That’s it for me.

I live in one country.

Sometimes we’ll get a government I approve of, sometimes not.

My vote is worth the same as one from Bucks.

 

[Granny Danger]

25 minutes ago, strichener said:

Seven wasted years.  We are much further from independence now that at any point in the last decade.

Anecdotally there is nowhere near the enthusiasm for independence in my social circle as there was in 2014.

Can you make a circle by yourself?

[D Angelo Barksdale]

8 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

Eh?  ScotchGov has the powers and the money to do shite better.

It doesn't.

I think you can safely drop this 'won't somebody think of the children' faux concern about the performance of the devolved administration. You are quite happy to ignore the bare faced corruption, malfeasance and wretched performance of the Westminster parliament of the last 10 years and beyond.

The issue for you isn't the performance, you don't give a shit if English schools are better than Scots, or if the Scottish NHS outperforms it's English counterpart in certain areas, all that matters to you is the flag on top of the building.

Empty headed, flag shagging, blood and soil nationalism.

[Baxter Parp]

Seven wasted years.  We are much further from independence now that at any point in the last decade.
Anecdotally there is nowhere near the enthusiasm for independence in my social circle as there was in 2014.

This is nonsense. Nobody on earth would believe you have a social circle.

[BallochSonsFan]

We've had 14 years of SNP administration. The first 4 years or so were generally not too bad. Then they announced the referendum and the SNP decided that the day job was no longer important. We've had 7 years of the SNP refusing to run Stoneybridge properly and using every failed target and poor performance as a chance to stoke grievances.

It's been an absolute horror show.

Regardless of anybody's views on independence, the reality is that the SNP are no longer focused on the day job. They havent been since the 2014 referendum. Thats something that everybody in Scotland, regardless of whether you''re pro indy or pro union, should be concerned about.. The current SNP administration seem to have this weird notion that incompetence in Stoneybridge doesnt really matter and that  it's ok to accept monumental failures of governance  because independence trumps everything else..

It doesnt. Scotland deserves far better from Holyrood than it's had over the past 7 or 8 years. We're seeing public services suffer and governance in Scotland's councils and devolved assembly in disarray because there's a belief that the only thing that matters is the next referendum. No matter whether you voted yes or no in 2014, your devolved assembly and local authorities are failing you.

[Antlion]

31 minutes ago, BallochSonsFan said:

We've had 14 years of SNP administration. The first 4 years or so were generally not too bad. Then they announced the referendum and the SNP decided that the day job was no longer important. We've had 7 years of the SNP refusing to run Stoneybridge properly and using every failed target and poor performance as a chance to stoke grievances.

It's been an absolute horror show.

Regardless of anybody's views on independence, the reality is that the SNP are no longer focused on the day job. They havent been since the 2014 referendum. Thats something that everybody in Scotland, regardless of whether you''re pro indy or pro union, should be concerned about.. The current SNP administration seem to have this weird notion that incompetence in Stoneybridge doesnt really matter and that  it's ok to accept monumental failures of governance  because independence trumps everything else..

It doesnt. Scotland deserves far better from Holyrood than it's had over the past 7 or 8 years. We're seeing public services suffer and governance in Scotland's councils and devolved assembly in disarray because there's a belief that the only thing that matters is the next referendum. No matter whether you voted yes or no in 2014, your devolved assembly and local authorities are failing you.

I see you’ve had your guidance notes in from Tory HQ. Could do with maybe one more “day job” and a couple of “divisives”, though. 

[O'Kelly Isley III]

27 minutes ago, BallochSonsFan said:

We've had 14 years of SNP administration. The first 4 years or so were generally not too bad. Then they announced the referendum and the SNP decided that the day job was no longer important. We've had 7 years of the SNP refusing to run Stoneybridge properly and using every failed target and poor performance as a chance to stoke grievances.

It's been an absolute horror show.

Regardless of anybody's views on independence, the reality is that the SNP are no longer focused on the day job. They havent been since the 2014 referendum. Thats something that everybody in Scotland, regardless of whether you''re pro indy or pro union, should be concerned about.. The current SNP administration seem to have this weird notion that incompetence in Stoneybridge doesnt really matter and that  it's ok to accept monumental failures of governance  because independence trumps everything else..

It doesnt. Scotland deserves far better from Holyrood than it's had over the past 7 or 8 years. We're seeing public services suffer and governance in Scotland's councils and devolved assembly in disarray because there's a belief that the only thing that matters is the next referendum. No matter whether you voted yes or no in 2014, your devolved assembly and local authorities are failing you.

I wouldn't disagree with much of that, but you omit to mention the truly dismal state of politics and policy delivery across the entire United Kingdom, and as Scotland remains part of that Union that is incredibly important.  Cue claims of whataboutery, but the fact is that the biggest threat to that same UK since 2014 has not been Scottish nationalism, but English exceptionalism tinged with racism, as evidenced by the lunacy of Brexit.

One of the by-products of that process has been the hardening of right-wing views and the election of hard-right politicians in England, but rather than stand by their core principles and fight for what they believe in, the Labour Party threw in the towel and with it any credibility that former Labour voters in Scotland like myself may have had.  Like many others I migrated to voting SNP but as you correctly point out that course is looking increasingly ill-advised. 

Politically, Sturgeon is now firmly marching into Bonnie Prince Charlie territory, and she may well come to regret committing to another referendum timescale.  So be it, but the question I would pose to yourselves and others who condemn the SNP whilst ignoring other important factors is what exactly do you suggest should  now happen to lift the political game right across the board ?

[Miguel Sanchez]

12 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

 Scotland has the worst governance of all of the devolved regions of our unitary nation.

There's a delicious irony in someone this staunch apparently forgetting North Ireland exists

[BallochSonsFan]

1 hour ago, Antlion said:

I see you’ve had your guidance notes in from Tory HQ. Could do with maybe one more “day job” and a couple of “divisives”, though. 

 

If you think that the money tied up Ferguson Marine - a state owned yard that hasnt secured any further contracts and can't finish the boats they're currently building, is acceptable then wire in.

Or the Covid care homes scandal.

Or the past 2 years of exams fiascos.

Or the shambles that is the SNHS.

Or the public money wasted on pursuing cases against the Rangers administrators and spivs - action that'll cost the tax payer north of £30million.

Or the state owned airport that has about 5 flights per day that we can't find a buyer for.

Or the failure to get the Scottish welfare administration body ready to assume responsibility for Scottish benefits, to the extent where we had to ask DWP nationally to keep administering benefits for us.

Cuts to public services.

 

But aye. Toaries or some other such shite. Eventually after 14 years in charge you run out of the right to blame others for the absolute state that Scotland is in.

[BallochSonsFan]

1 hour ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

I wouldn't disagree with much of that, but you omit to mention the truly dismal state of politics and policy delivery across the entire United Kingdom, and as Scotland remains part of that Union that is incredibly important.  Cue claims of whataboutery, but the fact is that the biggest threat to that same UK since 2014 has not been Scottish nationalism, but English exceptionalism tinged with racism, as evidenced by the lunacy of Brexit.

One of the by-products of that process has been the hardening of right-wing views and the election of hard-right politicians in England, but rather than stand by their core principles and fight for what they believe in, the Labour Party threw in the towel and with it any credibility that former Labour voters in Scotland like myself may have had.  Like many others I migrated to voting SNP but as you correctly point out that course is looking increasingly ill-advised. 

Politically, Sturgeon is now firmly marching into Bonnie Prince Charlie territory, and she may well come to regret committing to another referendum timescale.  So be it, but the question I would pose to yourselves and others who condemn the SNP whilst ignoring other important factors is what exactly do you suggest should  now happen to lift the political game right across the board ?

Neither Westminster nor Stoneybridge Town Council are doing a good job. Its entirely possible for both to do better and for people to demand that they both do better.

We don't need to wait for Westminster to improve before Holyrood does.

[sophia]

39 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Jeezo, After reading just 2 pages it's pretty clear that we're back to 2014 again.

"No" voters are apparently thick racists who hate Scotland and "Yes" voters are apparently members of the sheep cult.

Not a single person respectful of the right of others to have a different opinion.

That'll do for me.

Enjoy your "discussion" folks.

And yet you enjoy the c thread