WoSFL Cup 2021-22

[Shanner]

19 minutes ago, energyzone said:

29 minutes ago, jimbaxters said:

This cup is the least important pal

Maybe the second least important. Staging a Scottish Junior Cup when there are no junior clubs south of the Highlands and some of the bigger West teams aren't entering is an embarrassment and a complete waste of time.

pains me to agree but the Junior Scottish is done. 

[FairWeatherFan]

28 minutes ago, energyzone said:

39 minutes ago, jimbaxters said:

This cup is the least important pal

Maybe the second least important. Staging a Scottish Junior Cup when there are no junior clubs south of the Highlands and some of the bigger West teams aren't entering is an embarrassment and a complete waste of time.

It really depends on what some clubs are competing in. Talbot fans, and it mainly seems to be them complaining over it, would have the WoSFL Cup bottom of the 4 they're competing in.

Scottish Cup is obvious. The Junior Cup they can win and pocket the guarantee at worst. The SCC has the perception as being the stronger on the field competition. Then its the WoSFL Cup at the bottom. It's a rather privileged position to be in compared to the majority of the 74 members of the WoSFL.

 

[Ginaro]

3 hours ago, jimbaxters said:

To fill the void where the earlier excitement was, let's discuss the fact that this cup is happening at all, at least this season. Surely something could have been done about alleviating the pressure on some Premier clubs. For example, Hurlford and Glenafton have been drawn in a prelim round when they are involved in the Scottish Junior Cup as well. And before someone (probably from Clydebank) pipes up with "That's their choice. The Joonyurs are died!", it wasn't their choice to be involved in a 38 match league.

At least until this horrendous season of fixtures is out the way, this cup could/should have been either scrapped, seeded or just played out within the Conference clubs. The fact that sponsorship has been allocated should mean the latter would have been the best option. With all due respect, this is the least of the cup competitions in kudos and, I suspect, could be seen far enough by most Premier Clubs. At a quick calculation, Talbot could potentially be involved in 56 competitive matches this season and that's before counting the William Hill Scottish Cup. All this from semi professional lads who have day jobs. Crazy stuff.

I'd agree that the latter might've been the best option (similar to the EOS with the King Cup) - however you can't say that the sponsorship has been allocated so let's just change the format. The sponsor is presumably paying for a league cup which includes all clubs - especially the Premier Division ones - to give them maximum exposure. Otherwise they might not bother or they would pay less money for just the Conference clubs.

I assume the member clubs will have voted for this cup when setting up the original WOSFL constitution and then also at the first AGM ahead of this season, so enough clubs must be ok with this situation.

[jimbaxters]

9 hours ago, Ginaro said:

I'd agree that the latter might've been the best option (similar to the EOS with the King Cup) - however you can't say that the sponsorship has been allocated so let's just change the format. The sponsor is presumably paying for a league cup which includes all clubs - especially the Premier Division ones - to give them maximum exposure. Otherwise they might not bother or they would pay less money for just the Conference clubs.

I assume the member clubs will have voted for this cup when setting up the original WOSFL constitution and then also at the first AGM ahead of this season, so enough clubs must be ok with this situation.

You misunderstood me pal. I meant that the fact that sponsorship had been given then scrapping it for this year isn't an option. Of course, I take your point about the sponsor wanting the big clubs in there but the responsibility lies with the WoSFL who should have had the foresight to trim the cups down when they knew the 38 game league format.

[jimbaxters]

10 hours ago, Shanner said:

pains me to agree but the Junior Scottish is done. 

Yes it is for the future but in this season it's still a thing which was drawn and decided upon far before this cup was. As it was the last to get organised the WoSFL should have shelved it for this one season IMO. 

[jimbaxters]

11 hours ago, energyzone said:

11 hours ago, jimbaxters said:

This cup is the least important pal

Maybe the second least important. Staging a Scottish Junior Cup when there are no junior clubs south of the Highlands and some of the bigger West teams aren't entering is an embarrassment and a complete waste of time.

Where is the embarrassment?

[FairWeatherFan]

22 minutes ago, jimbaxters said:

Yes it is for the future but in this season it's still a thing which was drawn and decided upon far before this cup was. As it was the last to get organised the WoSFL should have shelved it for this one season IMO. 

Hmmm...The WoSFL Cup is part of the league constitution. It's been on the books since the league started. The reason it hasn't been drawn until now is because it's a later competition and the prioritising league fixtures in the first chunk of the season.

Just because this is the first you may have heard of it, doesn't mean it's popped up out of nowhere. You can find multiple references to a WoSFL/West of Scotland/League Cup getting played this year in the forum.

EDIT: 06/03/2021 from the newly elected Vice-Chair of the WoSFL.

On 06/03/2021 at 08:45, parkcircus said:

Those cups are accessed via the South Counties FA and EOS FA, at the moment WOS clubs aren’t part of the WOS FA, Ayrshire FA, Glasgow FA or Stirling FA etc

Clubs would need to join at SFA Regional FA and then put a cup together, for  next season the West of Scotland League Cup will be played as well, this can’t have an SC Cup as  it’ll have licensed clubs in it, so we are looking at getting an unlicensed cup setup  but one step at a time at the moment 

 

Edited September 16, 2021 by FairWeatherFan

[glensmad]

35 minutes ago, jimbaxters said:

Yes it is for the future but in this season it's still a thing which was drawn and decided upon far before this cup was. As it was the last to get organised the WoSFL should have shelved it for this one season IMO. 

It wasn't the last to get organised, it has been in the WoSFL Constitution from day one. It was the last to get scheduled as priority has rightly been given to getting the leagues to the end of phase 1, which will happen in early November. Once Phase 1 is completed, league positions could be declared in the event of another enforced shutdown, and consequently get the leagues into their linear format instead of Conferences.

An enormous amount of thought and discussion has gone into the scheduling of the fixtures this season, and it is to Kennie's great credit that it looks likely that we will be able to comfortably get 38 Premier games played and all of the cup competitions. Kennie has also been very flexible and accomodating with the Scottish Junior Cup being incorporated into the WoSFL's schedule, although quite rightly it no longer takes priority over other fixtures.

The WoSFL Cup was always going to be held this season, the clubs were informed of that it right from the formation of the WoSFL 18 months ago.

[Shanner]

20 minutes ago, jimbaxters said:

Yes it is for the future but in this season it's still a thing which was drawn and decided upon far before this cup was. As it was the last to get organised the WoSFL should have shelved it for this one season IMO. 

Regardless of the wider fixture congestion issue there's absolutely no prestige attached to it now, clubs should have used the end of the last Junior season as a natural time to bring down the curtain rather than persist and have it regarded as an irrelevance imo. 

I agree that the pie cup is a nuisance though. 

[glensmad]

Hopefully the plans for a national non-league cup competition from tier 5 downwards will come to fruition, and the WoSFL have been at the forefront of those discussions by submitting a proposal to the 4 Leagues Meeting (Lowland/WoSFL/EoSFL/SoSFL) which has gained their approval and has now been submitted to the Scottish FA and is on the agenda for discussion at the next Pyramid Working Group meeting.

It has also been noted that the SJFA went public a week or two ago stating their intention to form a similar competition.  Hopefully all parties will work together to make this happen.

[theesel1994]

This cup was always going to go ahead. The only thing that was stopping it being drawn earlier (and played earlier) was in case there was another shut down. I'll bet in future seasons it will be drawn before the season starts and played earlier on.

[glensmad]

5 minutes ago, theesel1994 said:

This cup was always going to go ahead. The only thing that was stopping it being drawn earlier (and played earlier) was in case there was another shut down. I'll bet in future seasons it will be drawn before the season starts and played earlier on.

Correct, ideally it would be played throughout the season as it is the WoSFL's major cup competition. The only reason that hasn't happened this season is as stated before, to concentrate on getting phase one of the fixtures complete. Once that is achieved, we can fit in the other cup competitions. If certain clubs choose to prioritise cup competitions outside the WoSFL's remit that they are eligible to take part in, then that's entirely the individual club's choice. Taking part in the WoSFL Cup is mandatory as part of membership of the organisation. Taking part in competitions outside of the WoSFL's remit is optional.

[jimbaxters]

58 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Hmmm...The WoSFL Cup is part of the league constitution. It's been on the books since the league started. The reason it hasn't been drawn until now is because it's a later competition and the prioritising league fixtures in the first chunk of the season.

Just because this is the first you may have heard of it, doesn't mean it's popped up out of nowhere. You can find multiple references to a WoSFL/West of Scotland/League Cup getting played this year in the forum.

EDIT: 06/03/2021 from the newly elected Vice-Chair of the WoSFL.

 

28 minutes ago, glensmad said:

It wasn't the last to get organised, it has been in the WoSFL Constitution from day one. It was the last to get scheduled as priority has rightly been given to getting the leagues to the end of phase 1, which will happen in early November. Once Phase 1 is completed, league positions could be declared in the event of another enforced shutdown, and consequently get the leagues into their linear format instead of Conferences.

An enormous amount of thought and discussion has gone into the scheduling of the fixtures this season, and it is to Kennie's great credit that it looks likely that we will be able to comfortably get 38 Premier games played and all of the cup competitions. Kennie has also been very flexible and accomodating with the Scottish Junior Cup being incorporated into the WoSFL's schedule, although quite rightly it no longer takes priority over other fixtures.

The WoSFL Cup was always going to be held this season, the clubs were informed of that it right from the formation of the WoSFL 18 months ago.

So the constitution trumps common sense? I refer you back to the fact that the top clubs could be asked to play 55-60 matches this season. That is a horrible load to put on players and fans. Yes Kennie is doing a good job with what he has been given, no-one can dispute that fact. 

The point is that it the constitution can be and should have been changed for this season.

[FairWeatherFan]

8 minutes ago, jimbaxters said:

 

So the constitution trumps common sense? I refer you back to the fact that the top clubs could be asked to play 55-60 matches this season. That is a horrible load to put on players and fans. Yes Kennie is doing a good job with what he has been given, no-one can dispute that fact. 

The point is that it the constitution can be and should have been changed for this season.

38 league games

6/7 WoSFL Cup games

7/8 South Challenge Cup games

6/7 Strathclyde Cup games if everyone not a member of the SFA and unlikely to get 6/7 in the Scottish Cup games

That's a max of 60 games getting to 3 cup finals or 2 cup finals and a long run in the Scottish Cup. Potentially 62 for the WoS Premier Champion.

Very rare air. Isn't going to be true of the vast majority of teams but apparently the WoSFL have to bend over for Talbot and the SJFA.

 

[glensmad]

24 minutes ago, jimbaxters said:

 

So the constitution trumps common sense? I refer you back to the fact that the top clubs could be asked to play 55-60 matches this season. That is a horrible load to put on players and fans. Yes Kennie is doing a good job with what he has been given, no-one can dispute that fact. 

The point is that it the constitution can be and should have been changed for this season.

The clubs had the option to propose changes to the constitution. None of them chose to make such a proposal.

The clubs in the WoSFL are being asked to play 38 league games (Premier Division only) + WoSFL Cup games (6 rounds max I think), plus South Challenge Cup (6 or 7 rounds max I think), plus Scottish Cup ties or Strathclyde Cup ties (5 rounds max). As I said earlier, if they choose to play in competitions outside of the WoSFL's remit, that is not something the WoSFL can control.

Edited September 16, 2021 by glensmad

[jimbaxters]

11 minutes ago, glensmad said:

The clubs had the option to propose changes to the constitution. None of them chose to make such a proposal.

The clubs in the WoSFL are being asked to play 38 league games (Premier Division only) + WoSFL Cup games (6 rounds max I think), plus South Challenge Cup (6 or 7 rounds max I think), plus Scottish Cup ties or Strathclyde Cup ties (5 rounds max). As I said earlier, if they choose to play in competitions outside of the WoSFL's remit, that is not something the WoSFL can control.

This is not about the SJC even though I knew that would turn out to be the stick to beat those clubs who have entered it with. It's about expecting working men to play more games than professional footballers. Even going out of every cup in the first round that's more than 40 competitive matches this season. The rare air that FWF mentions is not so rare, as the top clubs can testify to. Again, it would just have taken a one season dispensation.

Let's be honest, it's really the fault of the midden that was caused at the big move. A 20 team league is wack!

[jimbaxters]

22 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

38 league games

6/7 WoSFL Cup games

7/8 South Challenge Cup games

6/7 Strathclyde Cup games if everyone not a member of the SFA and unlikely to get 6/7 in the Scottish Cup games

That's a max of 60 games getting to 3 cup finals or 2 cup finals and a long run in the Scottish Cup. Potentially 62 for the WoS Premier Champion.

Very rare air. Isn't going to be true of the vast majority of teams but apparently the WoSFL have to bend over for Talbot and the SJFA.

 

I'll say it clearly.

In a season where there are 38 league games (only this one) the sensible option would have been to take some pressure off those clubs. 

 The words "Talbot" and "SJFA" don't appear in the above sentence.

 

[glensmad]

A 20-team league is the cards that we have been dealt though, none of that was the decision of the current administration.

As far as I am aware no club has voiced an objection to the WoSFL Cup taking place this season, the only negative voices I've seen are on this forum.

[glensmad]

Just now, EUCFC said:

20 team league was a horrifically poor decision no matter how you spin it.
Lack of flexibility is administrators also not ideal.

The administrators (and Kennie Young in particular) have shown incredible flexibility, to such a stage where we are already a third of the season through the league season and it's only mid September. I do appreciate, though, that you and your other 30+ user names have a particular agenda against the WoSFL, so your opinion is best dealt with the way everyone on here generally does, i.e. ridiculed.

[FairWeatherFan]

3 minutes ago, jimbaxters said:

I'll say it clearly.

In a season where there are 38 league games (only this one) the sensible option would have been to take some pressure off those clubs. 

 The words "Talbot" and "SJFA" don't appear in the above sentence.

 

When clubs have added pressure onto their own schedules it's perfectly fair to highlight it.

The EoS Premier are playing a 34 game league season and 4 mandatory cup competitions. There's not a ton of difference in it compared to the 38 game season and 3 cups.