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alta-pete
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5 hours ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Great topic to bring up, Alta-pete.

I’ve  thought long and hard on this one and it’s really difficult to come up with something which satisfies the demands of an ever increasing consumerist population and, at the same time protect the vulnerable and less well off in society.

The problem is that the NHS has become something of a sacred cow with no one being able to criticise without being made out to be a selfish pig.

I think we need to consider how much people spend on their pets, their teeth and all the other pseudo medical services available without batting an eyelid.

I feel the market needs to play a part and the obvious first step would be to grant tax relief on private medical insurance to encourage the sector to expand. 
Someone mentioned making people pay for minor accidents and this is just so obvious that it’s a no-brainer. Definition of MINOR will be tricky but not impossible. Also must be lots of other things the NHS provides which should be charged for. I am currently receiving treatment for minor skin cancer for which I’d be delighted to pay. My private health insurer won’t cover it.

Anyway, great topic and I’ll be back with more ideas.

You're also a dumb idiot troll who frequently crosses the line into lazy racism 

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1. Fund social care properly. Acute Services' inefficiencies are exacerbated by an inability to get medically well people discharged from hospital. This is usually because they are waiting on care home/social work care package in the community. This should include appreciating that care workers have a fucking hard job and stop trying to get folk to do it for barely more than minimum wage. 

2. Stop capping medical and nursing student numbers. If someone is interested in either career and passes whatever entrance requirements are deemed necessary, train them. This one is a fucking no brainer. 

These 2 would be a good start. 

A lot of the complaints about beaurocracy etc fundamentally misunderstand how the NHS works. It is clinically led and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Senior doctors and nurses are embedded in leadership positions, and the rest of us rightly defer to them and support them in whatever way we can. To suggest otherwise is frankly insulting. 

ETA - an increase in provision of private healthcare helps nobody because these services are provided by NHS clinicians. The more private work they do, the longer the queue for everyone else will get. 

Edited by CountyFan
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1 minute ago, CountyFan said:

1. Fund social care properly. Acute Services' inefficiencies are exacerbated by an inability to get medically well people discharged from hospital. This is usually because they are waiting on care home/social work care package in the community. This should include appreciating that care workers have a fucking hard job and stop trying to get folk to do it for barely more than minimum wage. 

2. Stop capping medical and nursing student numbers. If someone is interested in either career and passes whatever entrance requirements are deemed necessary, train them. This one is a fucking no brainer. 

These 2 would be a good start. 

A lot of the complaints about beaurocracy etc fundamentally misunderstand how the NHS works. It is clinically led and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Senior doctors and nurses are embedded in leadership positions, and the rest of us rightly defer to them and support them in whatever way we can. To suggest otherwise is frankly insulting. 

 

Never did understand this.  You hear lots of goings on about shortages of doctors/nurses etc. and recruiting from abroad to fill roles.  Train more in the UK.  As you say it's a no brainer.  who cares if it costs a few quid.

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2 minutes ago, CountyFan said:

1. Fund social care properly. Acute Services' inefficiencies are exacerbated by an inability to get medically well people discharged from hospital. This is usually because they are waiting on care home/social work care package in the community. This should include appreciating that care workers have a fucking hard job and stop trying to get folk to do it for barely more than minimum wage. 

2. Stop capping medical and nursing student numbers. If someone is interested in either career and passes whatever entrance requirements are deemed necessary, train them. This one is a fucking no brainer. 

These 2 would be a good start. 

A lot of the complaints about beaurocracy etc fundamentally misunderstand how the NHS works. It is clinically led and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Senior doctors and nurses are embedded in leadership positions, and the rest of us rightly defer to them and support them in whatever way we can. To suggest otherwise is frankly insulting. 

 

Good response.

I think they are trying to sort out 1) and I agree on 2).

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5 minutes ago, Left Back said:

Never did understand this.  You hear lots of goings on about shortages of doctors/nurses etc. and recruiting from abroad to fill roles.  Train more in the UK.  As you say it's a no brainer.  who cares if it costs a few quid.

I will never, ever understand why anyone cares where their nurse comes from. Do you not just want them to be good? Do they need to know all the words to God Save The Queen as well?

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21 hours ago, The Moonster said:

Fund and staff the NHS properly. Problem solved. 

You're free to give your opinion but I'm also free to insult your opinion. Why do gammons have such a trouble with that? 

They're all for free speech, except when it makes them sad.

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9 minutes ago, GordonS said:

I will never, ever understand why anyone cares where their nurse comes from. Do you not just want them to be good? Do they need to know all the words to God Save The Queen as well?

it's sod all to do with that ya fanny.  we need more doctors and nurses so we should be training more.

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6 minutes ago, GordonS said:

They're all for free speech, except when it makes them sad.

Sad is a strange word?

I am all for free speech and am happy to listen to anything from the full spectrum of opinion.

I tend to find it is the ‘liberal’ left who are the most illiberal regarding free speech.

Mabe it’s my age but I just don’t like disrespecting people.

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12 minutes ago, Left Back said:

we need more doctors and nurses so we should be training more.

This is it. It is not something we can do overnight, but for as long as I can remember we've been moaning there aren't enough of them. In those years since this problem could've been at least partially resolved. 

I don't see an issue with people from abroad working in the NHS. However if we reach the stage that the NHS is dependent on immigrant labour, then ultimately we have a very large problem. The UK may not after all be viewed as an attractive destination by everyone, and Brexit will have put people in Europe off.

According to the below, 13.8% of the workforce isn't British. 

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7783/

Given 100k of those are EU nationals and it's no longer as easy as it used to be for them to come and work in the UK, we potentially have a big problem in future from a recruitment perspective. Obviously you still have staff from Asia etc. that work in the NHS, but the numbers are fewer and I've no doubt the hassle of visas etc is a detterance to some. If obstacles are in place, people will hesitate. 

The answer is probably something along the lines of pay them more money, isn't it? Incentivises more people into it domestically and also makes the UK more attractive abroad too. 

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30 minutes ago, Michael W said:

This is it. It is not something we can do overnight, but for as long as I can remember we've been moaning there aren't enough of them. In those years since this problem could've been at least partially resolved. 

I don't see an issue with people from abroad working in the NHS. However if we reach the stage that the NHS is dependent on immigrant labour, then ultimately we have a very large problem. The UK may not after all be viewed as an attractive destination by everyone, and Brexit will have put people in Europe off.

According to the below, 13.8% of the workforce isn't British. 

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7783/

Given 100k of those are EU nationals and it's no longer as easy as it used to be for them to come and work in the UK, we potentially have a big problem in future from a recruitment perspective. Obviously you still have staff from Asia etc. that work in the NHS, but the numbers are fewer and I've no doubt the hassle of visas etc is a detterance to some. If obstacles are in place, people will hesitate. 

The answer is probably something along the lines of pay them more money, isn't it? Incentivises more people into it domestically and also makes the UK more attractive abroad too. 

I used to do the tax affairs for GP Practices and, around 2006, I think, they got massive increases and an improved contract regarding working hours. A big factor, also, is the number of female GP’s who now chose to work part time for family reasons thus diminishing the workforce.

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22 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

I used to do the tax affairs for GP Practices and, around 2006, I think, they got massive increases and an improved contract regarding working hours. A big factor, also, is the number of female GP’s who now chose to work part time for family reasons thus diminishing the workforce.

But if we don't offer flexibility then we will lose working mums altogether. Its 2021, folk don't need to choose between work and a family any more. 

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1 minute ago, oaksoft said:

Not disagreeing with any of this in princple but how do you do 1 and 2 without bankrupting the country bearing in mind that these costs would be ongoing every year rather than one-off like the pandemic spending?

Also, if you remove caps on medical and nursing staff you'll end up with at least 10 times the number of both within about 5 years when they all graduate. Where are you going to place them and how are you going to pay them?

Big acute hospitals are running routinely with 50+ nursing shortages a day. It is literally impossible to train too many, especially at the current rate that they are leaving. In fact, training more might convince the rest of them to stay because they won't be so ridiculously burnt out. 

My job isnt to make policy decisions or work out how to fund the NHS, it's to make sure the resources we do have are used appropriately. I'm just giving some suggestions for what would help. 

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27 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

 

There hasn't been a government of any colour since the NHS was invented (including Labour and the SNP) who have managed to figure that out but you seem confident you've got the answer.

How exactly do you carry that out?

How much money is needed?

How many staff are needed?

Well what you do is give the NHS money and it allows them to hire staff to service the needs of the country. Quite why you think I would have any of the figures you're asking for is anyones guess. It's about priorities, do you want to spend money on weapons to kill people or 98 billion on a train, or do you want to make sure your country has sufficient health care. We're fucked in trillions of debt so don't give me this bankrupt the country pish. 

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2 hours ago, Left Back said:

it's sod all to do with that ya fanny.  we need more doctors and nurses so we should be training more.

Or we should keep bringing them in from other countries, like we've been doing all along.

The idea that there is enough suitably capable people willing and able to train as doctors and nurses in the UK, for that pay and with those hours, is probably very wrong anyway.

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15 minutes ago, GordonS said:

Or we should keep bringing them in from other countries, like we've been doing all along.

The idea that there is enough suitably capable people willing and able to train as doctors and nurses in the UK, for that pay and with those hours, is probably very wrong anyway.

Correct

f**k poor countries. They shouldn't have any medical staff if they can't be bothered having lots of money. 

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21 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

The IJBs have been a complete waste of time. Years in and still nobody know what they are meant to be doing and delayed discharge are still a huge issue.

Get the National Care Service up and running and get people out of hospitals.

Preach. 

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