Scotland v Israel

[2426255]

4 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

I take it 6426255 is some ancient Hebrew script ?

Bizarre that a "Scotland fan" would have such a raging boner for a team like Israel.

Oh ,well done  you got me - I must be an Israeli in disguise.  People on here moan about the arrogance of the English fans and act in the exact same way when it comes to playing against teams we 'should' beat.

Edited October 7, 2021 by 2426255

[Billy Jean King]

Oh ,well done  you got me - I must be an Israeli in disguise. [emoji2357][emoji23] People on here moan about the arrogance of the English fans and act in the exact same way when it comes to playing against teams we 'should' beat.

Thinking you should beat another team isn't "arrogance". I think you would struggle to find a more pragmatic and realistic support than Scotland fans. You die on your "Israel are great" hill if you want, I assume it's so you can appear even more smug if we don't win, meanwhile I will go along with a reasonable amount of hope based on my knowledge of both teams without going full on stauner for an opponent who by all metrics are not better than us hence we should be hopeful of beating them with home advantage and a full passionate support behind us.

The day football fans stop "expecting" their team to win occasionally is probably when they should find a new passion in life.

[2426255]

7 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

Thinking you should beat another team isn't "arrogance". I think you would struggle to find a more pragmatic and realistic support than Scotland fans. 

Only when England do it then? 

7 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

I assume it's so you can appear even more smug if we don't win, meanwhile I will go along with a reasonable amount of hope based on my knowledge of both teams without going full on stauner for an opponent who by all metrics are not better than us hence we should be hopeful of beating them with home advantage and a full passionate support behind us.

Saying we should win is not hope, its expectation - there's a difference. What about the head to head metric over the last year? Let's just ignore that then and focus on the metrics that work for us such as historical performance and world rankings.  I couldn't be looking at it from a balanced perspective if I'm highlighting Israel - instead I must be the enemy. You're mental and biased.

 

Edited October 7, 2021 by 2426255

[oneteaminglasgow]

1 hour ago, 2426255 said:

If we should beat them then it would be an easy game.  A tough game is where you don't know the outcome before the game begins.

This is laughable bollocks. 

[Theyellowbox]

11 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

Saying we should win is not hope, its expectation - there's a difference. What about the head to head metric over the last year? Let's just ignore that then and focus on the metrics that work for us such as historical performance and world rankings.  I couldn't be looking at it from a balanced perspective if I'm highlighting Israel - instead I must be the enemy. You're mental and biased.

 

I don't think it is unrealistic to expect to beat the team seeded below us in the group, currently below us in the group, who we have a better head to head over recently and who we drew away from home with earlier in the campaign.

If we were playing Italy, I would HOPE we would beat them, but not expect it.

If we stop expecting to beat team which statistically are lower than us, then we have no chance. It's not arrogance, it's just a measure of where we are vs the team we are about to play. 

Edited October 7, 2021 by Theyellowbox

[2426255]

8 minutes ago, Theyellowbox said:

I don't think it is unrealistic to expect to beat the team seeded below us in the group, currently below us in the group, who we have a better head to head over recently and who we drew away from home with earlier in the campaign.

If we were playing Italy, I would HOPE we would beat them, but not expect it.

If we stop expecting to beat team which statistically are lower than us, then we have no chance. It's not arrogance, it's just a measure of where we are vs the team we are about to play. 

Context: They're 1 point behind us having played Denmark twice.

Head to Head Record over the last year: Israel 1 - 1 Scotland, Israel 1 - 0 Scotland, Scotland 0 - 0 (5-3pens) Israel, Scotland 1 - 1 Israel.

So where is this optimism coming from? You're right, they aren't Italy but I just don't see where the expectation comes from. Even in the nations league they finished only 2 points behind us. Everyone is forgetting the reality. It's not like Israel have nothing to play for, this game is massive for them too.

Edited October 7, 2021 by 2426255

[Blootoon87]

I don't know who he's arguing with, literally nobody has said this will be an easy game. Another for the ignore list. Spamming c**t.

[Theyellowbox]

11 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

Context: They're 1 point behind us having played Denmark twice.

Head to Head Record over the last year: Israel 1 - 1 Scotland, Israel 1 - 0 Scotland, Scotland 0 - 0 (5-3pens) Israel, Scotland 1 - 1 Israel.

So where is this optimism coming from? You're right, they aren't Italy but I just don't see where the expectation comes from. Even in the nations league they finished only 2 points behind us. Everyone is forgetting the reality. It's not like Israel have nothing to play for, this game is massive for them too.

So by your logic, because you say they have played Denmark twice, you EXPECT Denmark to beat us because they beat Israel and beat us in ghe last game?

You basing that on historical performance and world rankings? 

I don't think anyone is arguing the game will be easy, but no idea why you take issue with folk expecting to win. 

[2426255]

7 minutes ago, Theyellowbox said:

So by your logic, because you say they have played Denmark twice, you EXPECT Denmark to beat us because they beat Israel and beat us in ghe last game?

You basing that on historical performance and world rankings? 

I don't think anyone is arguing the game will be easy, but no idea why you take issue with folk expecting to win. 

Well, good point - fair enough, I'll happily take that back. What about the rest? I don't expect Denmark to beat us.

Quote

 

Context: They're 1 point behind us .

Head to Head Record over the last year: Israel 1 - 1 Scotland, Israel 1 - 0 Scotland, Scotland 0 - 0 (5-3pens) Israel, Scotland 1 - 1 Israel.

So where is this optimism coming from? You're right, they aren't Italy but I just don't see where the expectation comes from. Even in the nations league they finished only 2 points behind us. Everyone is forgetting the reality. It's not like Israel have nothing to play for, this game is massive for them too.

 

 

Edited October 7, 2021 by 2426255

[forameus]

10 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

Well, good point - fair enough, I'll happily take that back. What about the rest? I don't expect Denmark to beat us.

So expecting us to win against a side pretty much around our level is a horrific crime, but not expecting a team like Denmark - who took the piss out of us the last time we played them, and are clearly better - to beat us is...fine?

[2426255]

14 minutes ago, forameus said:

So expecting us to win against a side pretty much around our level is a horrific crime, but not expecting a team like Denmark - who took the piss out of us the last time we played them, and are clearly better - to beat us is...fine?

Yeah, well it's contextual. I think Denmark won't have anything to play for when they play us so I think we could get something. Is that unfair?

If we are playing a team fairly close to our team in terms of ability then why would we expect to beat them? I would only expect to beat a team vastly inferior to us particularly if they didn't have a strong motivation to beat us. I don't believe Israel are vastly inferior to us (based on our recent head to head record) and I know they have a strong motivation to beat us (to qualify for their first world cup since the 80's) therefore I don't expect us to beat them. I want to beat them and I have my fingers crossed sure, but I don't expect it.

Edited October 7, 2021 by 2426255

[thruthenight]

Team could be interesting for this one. I kind of expect Adams to be dropped to fit McTominay in and push McGinn further up, something like:

 

Gordon
Hendry Cooper Tierney
O'Donnell Gilmour McTominay McGregor Robertson
McGinn
Dykes

 

[Zazu]

18 minutes ago, thruthenight said:

Team could be interesting for this one. I kind of expect Adams to be dropped to fit McTominay in and push McGinn further up, something like:

 

Gordon
Hendry Cooper Tierney
O'Donnell Gilmour McTominay McGregor Robertson
McGinn
Dykes

 

I'll be raging if that's the line up. 

Way too defensive, surely even for Clarke. 

[Est. 1893]

Should we expect to win a home game at a full capacity Hampden against Israel if we have any notions of qualifying for the World Cup? Yes. 

Is there any guarantee we will? Absolutely not. 

Without hope and expectation we may as well not bother turning up. 

[Est. 1893]

20 minutes ago, thruthenight said:

Team could be interesting for this one. I kind of expect Adams to be dropped to fit McTominay in and push McGinn further up, something like:

 

Gordon
Hendry Cooper Tierney
O'Donnell Gilmour McTominay McGregor Robertson
McGinn
Dykes

 

I agree that this is definitely something Clarke will be considering, as we know McGinn can get us goals. I hope this isn't the line up though. Need to pressure their defence and go with two up top and McGinn in behind. Any two of Gilmour/McTominay/McGregor should be more than capable of holding the midfield with McGinn helping out and bombing forward. 

[2426255]

13 minutes ago, Est. 1893 said:

Should we expect to win a home game at a full capacity Hampden against Israel if we have any notions of qualifying for the World Cup? Yes. 

Is there any guarantee we will? Absolutely not. 

Without hope and expectation we may as well not bother turning up. 

I thought the model fan would back the team regardless of hope or expectation. Isn't that what makes the fans that went through the years of Berti Vogts, Craig Levein and so on the real fans because they supported the team when there was no hope nor any expectation - through thick and through thin.

I see a lot of that to be honest, what can the team do for me? 

Edited October 7, 2021 by 2426255

[The Moonster]

Gordon

Hendry -- Cooper -- Tierney

Patterson -- McTominay -- Gilmour -- Robertson

SJM

Dykes -- Adams

O'Donnell and Patterson, I'm not too fussed who starts but I've given the youngster a go here. The rest is pretty close to our best 11 IMO, really want to see what McTominay and Gilmour look like together in midfield, Gilmour as the deep playmaker and McTominay going box to box, Super John McGinn doing Super John McGinn things in front of them. Dykes and Adams have shown some signs of understanding in the previous matches and I'd like to see them continue as a partnership. Intae thum!

[KingRocketman II]

16 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

I thought the model fan would back the team regardless of hope or expectation. Isn't that what makes the fans that went through the years of Berti Vogts, Craig Levein and so on the real fans because they supported the team when there was no hope nor any expectation - through thick and through thin.

I see a lot of that to be honest, what can the team do for me? 

[Est. 1893]

15 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

I thought the model fan would back the team regardless of hope or expectation. Isn't that what makes the fans that went through the years of Berti Vogts, Craig Levein and so on the real fans because they supported the team when there was no hope nor any expectation - through thick and through thin.

I see a lot of that to be honest, what can the team do for me? 

For me, hope and expectation has always been there. Sometimes admittedly more on the hope side. But I expected we would improve in those times. Right now I feel like we're justified to have more than hope. 

[2426255]

2 minutes ago, Est. 1893 said:

For me, hope and expectation has always been there. Sometimes admittedly more on the hope side. But I expected we would improve in those times. Right now I feel like we're justified to have more than hope. 

3 months ago people were writing off Steve Clarke and this qualifying campaign and now we are at a point everyone expects us to beat Israel. At least I'm consistent and I'd say balanced.

The reason I disagree with you is because I don't believe you have factored in Israel as a team, they're not going to just show up and roll over because we have Billy Gilmour and Scott McTominay in our team, this is a great chance for them too and they as a football nation are on an upwards trend.