Raith Rovers vs Queen of the South

[Frankly, Mr Shankly]

A thrilling encounter in the books? Probably not. 

[TxRover]

BRS is suspended, and we await news on Connolly. Spencer not likely to be ready, so we may well see Arnott get his first start in midfield, possibly with Fotheringham on the wing. Will Varian start again, will we see Poplatnik back out there, or does Keatings finally get a start?

[Frankly, Mr Shankly]

2 minutes ago, TxRover said:

BRS is suspended, and we await news on Connolly. Spencer not likely to be ready, so we may well see Arnott get his first start in midfield, possibly with Fotheringham on the wing. Will Varian start again, will we see Poplatnik back out there, or does Keatings finally get a start?

You’re better off asking McGlynn, Tx. 

In all serious I’d like to see Fotheringham get a start, as well as Keatings. However can’t see us dropping Varion, or switching to two upfront. 

[Raithie]

Surely, if Connolly is out, he'll just go with Fotheringham and Zanatta out wide with Matthews and Tait in the middle? I'd be very surprised if he starts both Arnott and Keatings. 

[Ro Sham Bo]

59 minutes ago, Frankly, Mr Shankly said:

A thrilling encounter in the books? Probably not. 

This is basically an 8th/9th place decider

[TxRover]

29 minutes ago, Raithie said:

Surely, if Connolly is out, he'll just go with Fotheringham and Zanatta out wide with Matthews and Tait in the middle? I'd be very surprised if he starts both Arnott and Keatings. 

Given we’ve been playing one up top (Varian), two wide (Connolly and Zanatta), and three mids (Matthews, Tait and BRS)…if Fotheringham replaces Connolly as you suggest, who replaces BRS? That’s where I see Arnott slipping in. As for Keatings, Varian has had two games now in three days, and had to work into playing form a wee bit ago, I could see him sitting the next match.

[die hard doonhamer]

I'll go for it being another one of those good performances but ultimately lose. We're good at them.

[Hank Scorpio]

I'll go for it being another one of those good performances but ultimately lose. We're good at them.

Two, please.

[steakngravy]

Are season tickets not valid for this game as there is no mention about them on the Rovers web only about buying one. Somebody forget something in the office methinks.

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

39 minutes ago, steakngravy said:

Are season tickets not valid for this game as there is no mention about them on the Rovers web only about buying one. Somebody forget something in the office methinks.

Quote

*2021/22 season ticket prices will give access to all Raith Rovers 1st team SPFL Championship matches at Stark’s Park, with the exception of any SPFL playoffs and Cup ties.

Prices | Raith Rovers FC

[Raithie]

14 hours ago, TxRover said:

As for Keatings, Varian has had two games now in three days, and had to work into playing form a wee bit ago, I could see him sitting the next match.

So Varian, one of our goalscorers from last night and a player starting to show his worth, will sit out the match because he played Saturday and Tuesday? 

[TxRover]

41 minutes ago, Raithie said:

So Varian, one of our goalscorers from last night and a player starting to show his worth, will sit out the match because he played Saturday and Tuesday? 

Certainly, we need to get other players time too, especially with Vaughan out. Keatings is an experienced player who is getting some nice attempts in during very limited play. Let Keatings start and bring on Varian late against a tired back line, and your argument is that’s bad? If Keatings isn’t 100% physically, get Poplatnik some time as a starter…while Stoke are probably happy to see Varian playing regularly, Livi probably aren’t as thrilled with Poplatnik’s recent playing time, and ideally we’d like them both happy with the loans.

There is a drumbeat of play the strongest team, play the team that won last week, start X because he’s scoring/doing well. Unfortunately, that’s not always best for the team. Playing every match is nice, if you have no depth and no injuries occur. It also highlights players that will be potentially lifted from us during the next window.

Ethon is with us until Jan, when he will likely just leave…Vaughan will not be ready to return then…Mitchell isn’t ready to start…Poplatnik is probably leaving too in January…so why on earth would we NOT take a opportunity to get Keatings a start and a chance to get on track?

In a similar manner, I think we need to see more play by Lang and McKay…initially in clean up time, but Berra (and Bene, for that matter) is unlikely to start every match this season, so let’s blood the player behind them when possible.

Consider our issue now that BRS is suspended, we have two “pure” midfielders with experience…not ideal. Experienced backups are rare at this level, backups with some game experience and a little playing time are where it’s at when injuries strike…we’re Raith, we do injuries.

[steakngravy]

What's the time limit on Spenser returning to the squad? Also how near fitness are the other injured players Vaughn not included in this.

[Broken Algorithms]

I'm with Raithie on this. I don't see why you'd drop a player with 2 goals in 3 games for a player yet to score. We all want Keatings to do well given his track record against us but there's no chance he should be starting ahead of our only fit forward to score in a competitive game.

[Raithie]

2 minutes ago, Broken Algorithms said:

I'm with Raithie on this. I don't see why you'd drop a player with 2 goals in 3 games for a player yet to score. We all want Keatings to do well given his track record against us but there's no chance he should be starting ahead of our only fit forward to score in a competitive game.

Thank you. I thought I was going round the bend with my thinking. 

56 minutes ago, TxRover said:

Certainly, we need to get other players time too

When the time is right but not just for the sake of it at a possible detrimental effect to the outcome of a game. 

 

57 minutes ago, TxRover said:

Let Keatings start and bring on Varian late against a tired back line, and your argument is that’s bad?

Well considering Varian is now scoring goals do it the opposite way.

1 hour ago, TxRover said:

There is a drumbeat of play the strongest team, play the team that won last week, start X because he’s scoring/doing well. Unfortunately, that’s not always best for the team. 

The team should pick itself if they are winning and players are performing well.

1 hour ago, TxRover said:

It also highlights players that will be potentially lifted from us during the next window.

Drop players who are performing well and/or scoring goals in case they are poached by another club, really? 

 

1 hour ago, TxRover said:

Ethon is with us until Jan

So lets get the best out of him for the short time he's here.

1 hour ago, TxRover said:

Mitchell isn’t ready to start…

Neither is Arnott then.

1 hour ago, TxRover said:

In a similar manner, I think we need to see more play by Lang and McKay…initially in clean up time, but Berra (and Bene, for that matter) is unlikely to start every match this season, so let’s blood the player behind them when possible.

Our defence is looking great at the moment, lets not fart about with it purely on a 'just in case' mindset.

 

1 hour ago, TxRover said:

Consider our issue now that BRS is suspended, we have two “pure” midfielders with experience…not ideal. 

He'll more than likely miss one game, I'm sure we'll be fine until he's back. 

And also, where do you draw the line? Do we suddenly drop Zanatta or MacDonald to give someone else a chance?

[TxRover]

1 hour ago, Broken Algorithms said:

I'm with Raithie on this. I don't see why you'd drop a player with 2 goals in 3 games for a player yet to score. We all want Keatings to do well given his track record against us but there's no chance he should be starting ahead of our only fit forward to score in a competitive game.

 

1 hour ago, Raithie said:

Thank you. I thought I was going round the bend with my thinking. 

When the time is right but not just for the sake of it at a possible detrimental effect to the outcome of a game. 

 

Well considering Varian is now scoring goals do it the opposite way.

The team should pick itself if they are winning and players are performing well.

Drop players who are performing well and/or scoring goals in case they are poached by another club, really? 

 

So lets get the best out of him for the short time he's here.

Neither is Arnott then.

Our defence is looking great at the moment, lets not fart about with it purely on a 'just in case' mindset.

 

He'll more than likely miss one game, I'm sure we'll be fine until he's back. 

And also, where do you draw the line? Do we suddenly drop Zanatta or MacDonald to give someone else a chance?

Valid concerns but:

Defence - We have a back four that have played damn near every match. We know it can’t continue, but we are scared to allow any playing time to avoid “ruining” chemistry? Here’s the thing, playing with Bene or Berra would likely improve McKay and Lang (even Young) even if it’s only for 20-30 minutes.

Midfield - We don’t have crap for backup, Spencer is likely out until after Celtic, at least as a starter. That leaves Arnott as pretty much it behind Matthews, Tait and BRS (will miss just one game with a double yellow=red), so why not get him the last 15 minutes in a match?

Forwards - I understand the playing the hot player vibe, but I think we need to spread it around a little more. Now, if Keatings is shite, JMcG giving him 10-20 minutes a game like he has been isn’t likely, so something is going on there. Poplatnik and Varian both have contributed, but why did we sit Poplatnik for Varian then? Varian has scored a couple, but more opportunistically than through individual skill…so it’s disingenuous to suggest he’s our hot scorer.

 

On the topic of the team picking itself, then why do we have a manager?

 

On dropping players to reduce their profile, well, sometimes you just might. If you rotate the squad to give opportunities, you reduce the possibility that Varian or Poplatnik, for instance, will show so well that they don’t get offered back to us for the spring. Perhaps the best way to deal with a loan player is enough versus all. And we all saw how quickly Bowie and Tait drew visiting scouts as they played weekly, giving some starts to other players keeps everyone tuned up, and reduces the visibility of some young assets that don’t appear starting on every team sheet. It was very disappointing to see no real rotation versus Forfar.

I do, however, agree that this behavior should not be at detriment to the match…but all these players have played this year in meaningful matches for at least short periods, so they shouldn’t be the cause of a complete failure. On that token, then why did Berra and Bene start after the Accies debacle, was that not a risk of detriment to the result? It’s all about philosophy and tactics, and why we’re all keyboard warriors and the Gaffer is the bald messiah!

[Enigma]

1 hour ago, TxRover said:

On the topic of the team picking itself, then why do we have a manager?

Because he gets to see something neither of us do - the players in training. That’s might go some way to explaining why Keatings isn’t getting a game.

[TxRover]

2 minutes ago, Enigma said:

Because he gets to see something neither of us do - the players in training. That’s might go some way to explaining why Keatings isn’t getting a game.

Exactly my point, in that why would Keatings be getting some time at the end on several matches if he’s showing nothing in practice? I’m just wondering if he’s still a bit less than 100%.

[Raithie]

1 hour ago, TxRover said:

Defence - We have a back four that have played damn near every match. We know it can’t continue, but we are scared to allow any playing time to avoid “ruining” chemistry? Here’s the thing, playing with Bene or Berra would likely improve McKay and Lang (even Young) even if it’s only for 20-30 minutes.

What if we're at 0-0, or 1 down or 1 up. Does the manager go radge and start subbing defenders...just because?

1 hour ago, TxRover said:

Midfield - We don’t have crap for backup, Spencer is likely out until after Celtic, at least as a starter. That leaves Arnott as pretty much it behind Matthews, Tait and BRS (will miss just one game with a double yellow=red), so why not get him the last 15 minutes in a match?

He's maybe just not good enough or ready enough at the moment. McGlynn's judgement at the end of the day and he'll know better than us his abilities for this level.

1 hour ago, TxRover said:

Forwards - I understand the playing the hot player vibe, but I think we need to spread it around a little more. Now, if Keatings is shite, JMcG giving him 10-20 minutes a game like he has been isn’t likely, so something is going on there. Poplatnik and Varian both have contributed, but why did we sit Poplatnik for Varian then? Varian has scored a couple, but more opportunistically than through individual skill…so it’s disingenuous to suggest he’s our hot scorer.

What does it matter if the goals are via individual skill or not? At the end of the day Varian IS scoring goals (the aim of the game) therefore deserves a spot ahead of Keatings. 

1 hour ago, TxRover said:

On the topic of the team picking itself, then why do we have a manager?

Keep morale and confidence up....by not dropping in form players.

1 hour ago, TxRover said:

And we all saw how quickly Bowie and Tait drew visiting scouts as they played weekly, giving some starts to other players keeps everyone tuned up, and reduces the visibility of some young assets that don’t appear starting on every team sheet. 

That's quite a twisted way to mess with a players career if I'm honest and ultimately you run the risk of the player WANTING to leave more so than trying to keep them from being poached from another club.

 

[TxRover]

1 minute ago, Raithie said:

What if we're at 0-0, or 1 down or 1 up. Does the manager go radge and start subbing defenders...just because?

He's maybe just not good enough or ready enough at the moment. McGlynn's judgement at the end of the day and he'll know better than us his abilities for this level.

What does it matter if the goals are via individual skill or not? At the end of the day Varian IS scoring goals (the aim of the game) therefore deserves a spot ahead of Keatings. 

Keep morale and confidence up....by not dropping in form players.

That's quite a twisted way to mess with a players career if I'm honest and ultimately you run the risk of the player WANTING to leave more so than trying to keep them from being poached from another club.

 

1) Again you ignore my acknowledgment of the point you made about not doing such to the detriment of the team.

2) I noted as much, but suggest that isn’t as likely given his use as a sub.

3) It matters because Keatings/Poplatnik/Mitchell (hell, even Vaughan on one leg) might as easily have scored those. Varian has looked kinda exciting, but his breakaways haven’t resulted in scores.

4) Morale and confidence can easily be kept up by open communications from the Gaffer to the individuals/team.

5) Depends how it’s done. If you have two loanees at the same position, it’s reasonable to rotate their play somewhat. If you have a promising youngster, you try to get him time without putting his name in bright lights…both to shelter him from the inevitable blowback from errors and to keep him from too high a profile too quickly. See Tait, Dylan over the past couple of years. He got some attention from scouts and his form suffered a bit. He was dropped for a couple of games and then worked in late, with the manager clearly communicating to him why. That wasn’t so much hiding him as protecting him from trying to do too much.

 

On that note, this was the second game in a row that Dylan has been kept of the board by a truly magnificent save from a keeper, so I guess the Hibs move isn’t phasing him the least.