South of Scotland League general chat

[andy25]

4 minutes ago, rockson said:

In that case it would be unlikely to provide a side capable of winning the play-offs for the Lowland League so there would be no point in being in it.

It will never provide a team capable of winning the play offs.

Glorified amateur league.

[rockson]

1 minute ago, andy25 said:

It will never provide a team capable of winning the play offs.

Glorified amateur league.

If it won't provide a team capable of winning the playoffs then there's no problem with it lying at Tier 6 then, since it's not an effective barrier to anyone else doing so.

[VodkaTap]

On 14/02/2023 at 20:32, HorseyGhirl said:

My self appointing as a crusader of one league in the west was tongue in cheek tbh, it was designed to garner reactions. I remember our discussion and I did apologise for unilaterally declaring SOS was not a tier 6 league, not my place to say that. Initially I did start from a bad position being angry at Wellington application. Its easy from there to back yourself into a corner and lose your point of view defending a previous statement.

Re EK/Braves, there only was SOS servicing the West back then surely, so would say it's different now. Both leagues in Mission Statements claim to cover the West of the Lowland area. So do we now have 2 Leagues covering  the West of the country?                                  Is that not contrary to how the pyramid is meant to run?         

What do you think about Wellington's application to the SOS? It smacks as a publicity stunt.

I was surprised Threave's move to the WOS seemed to go through without any objections.

I believe there should be one East League set up and one West League set up beneath the Lowland and enjoy discussing it whether other posters agree or not. In the end I might be proved wrong in my view, that's cool.

Covered a few different points but ones to discuss I feel?

Will be at Alba Cup Final so I'm not anti-south football. Just anti 2 league setups in the west.

I know dug wi a bone.

My main issue that I have with your one person crusade, as you chew on that bone - is that it's no' your bone in the first place !

That bone belongs tae all the teams in the SOS league, its fur them alone tae chew on, fur them decide their league future and fur them tae admit or reject anyone that applies !

It's not fur anyone tae tell them whit tae dae - unless it's the SFA !!

[stanley]

1 hour ago, rockson said:

If it won't provide a team capable of winning the playoffs then there's no problem with it lying at Tier 6 then, since it's not an effective barrier to anyone else doing so.

It could become a problem as Lowland League relegation opens up in a more fair way. There should be an absolute minimum of two relegation spots from the Lowland League but probably three. To have three as things stand, would involve automatic promotion for WoS, EoS and SoS champions. In reality, it should be WoS and EoS champions up automatically and then a playoff between the runners up for the final promotion spot. That would be fair IMO. Not an issue just now with the usual self-protectionism operating but it could become an issue further down the line.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, VodkaTap said:

My main issue that I have with your one person crusade, as you chew on that bone - is that it's no' your bone in the first place !

That bone belongs tae all the teams in the SOS league, its fur them alone tae chew on, fur them decide their league future and fur them tae admit or reject anyone that applies !

It's not fur anyone tae tell them whit tae dae - unless it's the SFA !!

Yep, it's the clubs that will decide or as you say an association.

Doesn't mean we as supporters can't have opinions or friendly debates/disagreements. Only disappointing element is that there are no contributors from any other supporters of SOS clubs. Would be good to hear others views especially on Threave's departure and the Wellington application.

But heh ho such is life.

Anyways enjoy football and I'm sure we'll cross paths on the future.

[Bad Wolf]

11 hours ago, HorseyGhirl said:

Yep, it's the clubs that will decide or as you say an association.

Doesn't mean we as supporters can't have opinions or friendly debates/disagreements. Only disappointing element is that there are no contributors from any other supporters of SOS clubs. Would be good to hear others views especially on Threave's departure and the Wellington application.

But heh ho such is life.

Anyways enjoy football and I'm sure we'll cross paths on the future.

I've posted on the SOSL in the past but haven't done recently for two reasons - firstly that I haven't been to see Uppers (my local team) recently as I've been to more KIllie games than usual, in addition to the occasional QOS, and also rugby matches (a game I most unexpectedly got into in recent years having previously hated it). The second reason is that I simply can't be arsed banging my head against the brick wall of intransigent Ayrshire clubs' fans (people I literally moved to the other side of the country to escape from as soon as I could) who constitute the bulk of P&B posters whining incessantly about the SOSL and it's allegedly unjustified place in the pyramid. In my view, stated a while ago, the SOS have already voluntarily dropped one tier, without whining about it, and without spending years and years flatly refusing to engage with it. I find the sheer bloody cheek of these people (Talbot fans of course being the worst) expecting everyone else to accommodate them both breathtakingly hypocritical and tedious beyond belief. Yes, I realise that some of my views are not terribly respectful, but I don't respect these people, so sue me.

Threave had their own reasons for moving, which I consider mistaken, but if it's such a heinous issue, the WOSL shouldn't have accepted them, just as the south shouldn't accept Wellington. As another poster has stated consistently, and I agree entirely, the SOS isn't the blockage in the pyramid, and no-one has proven to my satisfaction either that it should drop any further. The same also applies to the NCL, another league that has engaged with the pyramid regardless of it's relative weakness, and quite right too. Football is our national game, and should cover as much of the nation as possible. 

Edited February 16, 2023 by Bad Wolf

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

I've posted on the SOSL in the past but haven't done recently for two reasons - firstly that I haven't been to see Uppers (my local team) recently as I've been to more KIllie games than usual, in addition to the occasional QOS, and also rugby matches (a game I most unexpectedly got into in recent years having previously hated it). The second reason is that I simply can't be arsed banging my head against the brick wall of intransigent Ayrshire clubs' fans (people I literally moved to the other side of the country to escape from as soon as I could) who constitute the bulk of P&B posters whining incessantly about the SOSL and it's allegedly unjustified place in the pyramid. In my view, stated a while ago, the SOS have already voluntarily dropped one tier, without whining about it, and without spending years and years flatly refusing to engage with it. I find the sheer bloody cheek of these people (Talbot fans of course being the worst) expecting everyone else to accommodate them both breathtakingly hypocritical and tedious beyond belief. Yes, I realise that some of my views are not terribly respectful, but I don't respect these people, so sue me.

Threave had their own reasons for moving, which I consider mistaken, but if it's such a heinous issue, the WOSL shouldn't have accepted them, just as the south shouldn't accept Wellington. As another poster has stated consistently, and I agree entirely, the SOS isn't the blockage in the pyramid, and no-one has proven to my satisfaction either that it should drop any further. The same also applies to the NCL, another league that has engaged with the pyramid regardless of it's relative weakness, and quite right too. Football is our national game, and should cover as much of the nation as possible. 

Agree in no way is SOS blocking any aspect of the pyramid in an earlier post stated that SOS wasn't a Tier 6, I was annoyed at something or someone, I was wrong and apologised. 

To be fair neither club is doing anything wrong,  as both Leagues state in their constitution they cover the West of our wee nation.

For me that is the main problem, having 2 Leagues claiming same geographical area. 

 I live in the Stewartry, but hail from Glasgow Southside via North Lanarkshire and come from a Junior family, so am fully aware of the superiority complex indicative of a lot of these Junior supporters.          First came here to work at the Dundrennan Ranges in early 90's and went to St.Marys regularly.              This season have seen and enjoyed the games Threave have played in the new 4th Div. I must be honest, the teams at the top of this Div are better than the South teams I have seen play. That can be said about the different tier 5 Leagues, tier 6, tier 7 and so on. 

But that doesn't justify this proclamation that SOS or any league should self demote or promote itself.

Threave have their reasons for moving and personally I think it was right for them at this time having spoken with a few of the committee. If they miss out on promotion then who knows what they will do.

My issue is not about the SOS dropping, I feel rightly or wrongly that as a whole they aren't fully engaged in the pyramid, which if true is disappointing.

It's good to hear from a south supporter. If you can manage it get yourself along to St.Marys on 3rd Mar for Alba Cup Final. Lochar v Creetown I'll be there if the wife allows.

 

[DG.Roma]

13 hours ago, HorseyGhirl said:

Only disappointing element is that there are no contributors from any other supporters of SOS clubs. Would be good to hear others views especially on Threave's departure and the Wellington application.

This part of the country generally isn't well represented on this forum. The Queen of the South thread gets plenty of traffic, but Annan and Stranraer don't get much at all. Doesn't mean they don't have vocal and opinionated fans, just that those fans' voices are heard (or read) elsewhere. There's often a lot of Stranraer chat on facebook for example.

Anyway, I can't class myself as a supporter of an SOS club, I'm usually at one of the other D&G clubs, or Carlisle, on a weekend, but will get to midweek SOS games when I can.

I think part of Threave's reasoning for moving to the West was to avoid the same stale fixtures year on year, and also because if they reached a promotion playoff from the SOS, they wouldn't be strong enough to win it, meaning they'd effectively be competing in a small room with a glass ceiling. If, eventually, they get to a playoff via the WOS, they will be much stronger. If they don't get to the playoff, it's because they're in a competitive league, and they're happy with that.

I do wonder if they'll be able to attract good enough players to move up the WOS divisions the way they want to though. A few years ago, when St Cuthbert Wanderers won the SOS, they had a number of players who'd stepped down from Dalbeattie and Threave, who were in the Lowland League at the time. Most of these players sited travel as their reasoning for not wanting to play higher up. If the same mentality still exists, players will rather stay local and play with their pals in D&G than travel all over Ayrshire and the West central belt.

Personally, fair enough to Threave for giving it a go, but it's a shame to lose the derbies with St Cuthbert Wanderers.

If/when Dalbeattie and Gretna come down, people think they'll waltz the SOS and be straight back in the playoffs, but there's no way they'd retain many Lowland League quality players, so even if they did win the SOS, they'd likely be exactly where Threave were and have very little chance in the playoffs. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they opted for WOS rather than SOS, especially now that Threave have set a precedent.

As for Wellington and others, the SOS may allow them in order to keep their league alive, but I can't imagine many clubs, or players, in the SOS would be happy about it, mostly for the travel reasons mentioned above.

29 minutes ago, HorseyGhirl said:

It's good to hear from a south supporter. If you can manage it get yourself along to St.Marys on 3rd Mar for Alba Cup Final. Lochar v Creetown I'll be there if the wife allows.

Ditto. It's good to see some discussion in this part of the forum, and I'll also be at the final if possible.

[Guest]

@DG.Roma

're the travel, not heard any grumbling come out Threave, players or fans as yet. A number of the squad are Dumfries based I believe, so travelling north might not be a big issue. 

Yep there is an undercurrent once into Galloway that you almost need a passport to cross the county boundary. I regularly go up to Glasgow and back in same day for football, gigs etc; it's not like traversing Australia.

If that's the attitude of the club's 're travel, I think as the pyramid grows it becomes morally difficult to justify, what will be a regional league, staying at Tier 6 alongside country wide league's i.e EOS and WOS.

The SOS need to be proactive to ensure they stay relevant to the pyramid. There may be a review of the pyramid structure in the future, I have memories of this happening in England when I worked there.

Being in at the birth of the pyramid cannot be used eternally as a valid reason for staying put if you become an issue. Historical league's do disband for various reasons. Would not like for SOS to become an irrelevance.

Keep enjoying yer fitba.

[Sermani]

I put a post on this thread a few pages back. In my mind and seems to be the general consensus seems to be that the SOSFL is at least a tier too high and it should be up to the clubs if they want to drop a tier or amalgamate with the WOSFL.

If the league dropped to say tier 7, what would happen to Dalbeattie or Gretna if they got relegated? Would they have to or want to drop 2 tiers to play in the SOS? Would the 2 other tier 6 leagues be happy to accept them? As for Gretna, they are members of the East FA, the South FA refused them,  yet if they get relegated they seemingly have to go to the South league.

Threave decided to take a bit of a gamble, at least every season they have something to aim for, promotion to the next league. Every away game is a new adventure. If the players are happy to do it and the club seems to have plenty of finance to do it, good luck to them. Due to the 1.30 ko's i haven't been to game this season so can't comment on the standard.

Wellington, the South FA have let East Kilbride join and have Edusport/Caley Braves playing up at Strathclyde Park(dogging central), so they have set out their stall regards membership. Personally i think they should be refused entry to the league.  Would they last a season with all the travelling? or is it just  in the hope they win the league and get fast tracked to the Lowland League. If it was that easy surely all the alleged  "Big Junior" teams would have tried it

Due to work commitments and the 2pm kick offs during winter i rarely get to any South games now.  In the 40 plus years i've watched south football the facilities have vastly improved particularly in the last few seasons which is pleasing. Most clubs run by enthusiastic volunteers who give up a lot of time and commitment to ensure clubs keep going.  It annoys me that folk from outwith the area take pleasure in rubbishing the league and telling us where we should. Believe me you should try living down here. 

[DG.Roma]

3 hours ago, Sermani said:

If the league dropped to say tier 7, what would happen to Dalbeattie or Gretna if they got relegated? Would they have to or want to drop 2 tiers to play in the SOS?

Surely not. You can't relegate someone two tiers. Surely they'd drop into the top West* division and only fall into the South if they got relegated again. 

*I suppose maybe Gretna could go East as they did before, but that was because it was their best option at the time. I would expect them to stay West now, if/when the time comes

[Guest]

Biggest shame about the SOS forum is that we never seem to tallk about the clubs or any games.

It's always about the perceived standard and what tier the league should be in. A disappointing aspect is that the justification for he south being at tier 6 is; 'well it's not stopping any team that wants to get promoted, so no harm done leaving it at tier 6'.

It's a very condescending attitude to the SOS and if I was involved with any of the club's would drive me crazy. But you never seem to hear anything from the SOS. Why?

As I've said, way too many times now, will be at Alba Cup Final and believe me I plan to talk about it. 

[newcastle broon]

14 hours ago, Sermani said:

If the league dropped to say tier 7, what would happen to Dalbeattie or Gretna if they got relegated? Would they have to or want to drop 2 tiers to play in the SOS? Would the 2 other tier 6 leagues be happy to accept them? As for Gretna, they are members of the East FA, the South FA refused them,  yet if they get relegated they seemingly have to go to the South league.

Wellington, the South FA have let East Kilbride join and have Edusport/Caley Braves playing up at Strathclyde Park(dogging central), so they have set out their stall regards membership. Personally i think they should be refused entry to the league.  Would they last a season with all the travelling? or is it just  in the hope they win the league and get fast tracked to the Lowland League. If it was that easy surely all the alleged  "Big Junior" teams would have tried it

Dalbeattie and Gretna would surely go to the West Premier similar to what happens with East teams relegated from the LL into the East Premier though Gretna being East members might complicate things.

Wellington should be bottom West league to work their way up like every other new team.

10 hours ago, HorseyGhirl said:

As I've said, way too many times now, will be at Alba Cup Final and believe me I plan to talk about it. 

Is that the Cup that's played for with non licensed sides alongside the Alex Jack Cup in the East where the winners play off for a shot at the Scottish Cup ?

Clubs spend thousands to upgrade then you get this chance,It's some incentive really ? 

[Guest]

@newcastle broon

That's the one Renfrew and Luncarty await the winners. Surprised it's still a pathway to the Big Cup.

[GNU_Linux]

[Guest]

1 hour ago, GNU_Linux said:

I see Threave were playing Glenvale in a league game simultaneously.

Bit of a strange one that is it not?

[vikingTON]

On 15/02/2023 at 22:00, stanley said:

It could become a problem as Lowland League relegation opens up in a more fair way. There should be an absolute minimum of two relegation spots from the Lowland League but probably three. To have three as things stand, would involve automatic promotion for WoS, EoS and SoS champions. In reality, it should be WoS and EoS champions up automatically and then a playoff between the runners up for the final promotion spot. That would be fair IMO. Not an issue just now with the usual self-protectionism operating but it could become an issue further down the line.

Could being used twice here, to describe a potential problem if the LL takes up your pet project of relegation/promotion. So an admission that right now, there is absolutely no problem caused by the SoS being at tier 6. Where are you going to dump Dalbeattie and Gretna to as part of your Central Belt to LL conveyor belt? Or would they have to face double or triple relegation based on geography? The only setup that would create serious problems with the pyramid is your back of a fag packet scheme - which is why it will never be adopted. 

More broadly, the outright chauvinism towards the SoS league in the 0.4 seconds since the West junior ranks got on board with the pyramid is risible. Instead of acknowledging the common-sense division of Scotland into distinct regions by geography and transport limitations, there has been an immediate rush to undermine and in the end demolish any self-standing league outwith the Central Belt. All under the bogus slogan of 'ambition'. There's no evidence that Darvel are more 'ambitious' than St Cuthbert's Wanderers or other clubs. They're better resourced - that's the only fundamental difference. 

Edited February 18, 2023 by vikingTON

[vikingTON]

11 hours ago, newcastle broon said:

Dalbeattie and Gretna would surely go to the West Premier similar to what happens with East teams relegated from the LL into the East Premier though Gretna being East members might complicate things.

Dalbeattie is not even remotely in the WoS' catchment area. Are we adding Dalbeattie and Gretna to Campbeltown's potential away trips years down the line (and vice versa) - all in the name of giving WoS Premier clubs a slightly clearer run at being bodied by Tranent/Linlithgow? 

There is no sensible argument to say that is in the best interest of a pyramid system that represents the whole of Scotland - one that gives every club a competitive and financially viable place in the system. Instead it's just a replication of the exact same, narrow self-interest that non-league clubs complain about from the SPFL, and tier 6 complains about from the LL. 

Edited February 18, 2023 by vikingTON

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, virginton said:

Dalbeattie is not even remotely in the WoS' catchment area. Are we adding Dalbeattie and Gretna to Campbeltown's potential away trips years down the line (and vice versa) - all in the name of giving WoS Premier clubs a slightly clearer run at being bodied by Tranent/Linlithgow? 

There is no sensible argument to say that is in the best interest of a pyramid system that represents the whole of Scotland - one that gives every club a competitive and financially viable place in the system. Instead it's just a replication of the exact same, narrow self-interest that non-league clubs complain about from the SPFL, and tier 6 complains about from the LL. 

My man I live down here Dalbeattie is 20mins away, lovely Chinese there by the way, and it is in South WEST Scotland. Don't get your  geography argument, so please explain to me your thinking, as to me I am pretty certain SOUTH is The Borders and D&G.  D&G IS South West. How can you say that we are not in the West catchment area and where do you want Campbeltown to go. Also I'm pretty sure someone said Gretna would go to EOS. So how does that work when I was 20mins from Gretna today and pretty certain I wasn't in the East of the country. So if the East covers from the Tay to the Border why does the West not do the same. I did history so geography ain't my thing.

Got to say your points make no sense any more. I attend SOS matches and want to see the day Creetown play the likes of Maryhill and can compete.

Just like Threave are doing, yes at tier 10 and if that's their level then so be it. 

[Guest]

Today Threave played Glenvale in a WOS league game at Meadow Park and at the exact same time played St.Cuthberts at St.Marys. 

The '1st team' played Glenvale and won 7-3, keeping promotion alive.

The 'team' that played at St.Marys I understand was made up of under 17's and 'retired' players.

Don't know where to start with this.

What game had priority and why were Threave playing 2 games at same time. Earlier in season Threave played St.Peters on the Sat then played St.Cuthberts in Cree Lodge Cup I think, on the Sunday. 

What is going on here. It makes no sense to me why they should be playing games in this manner. Kudos to them for fulfilling all these ixtures by why were they put in this position at all?