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Austria v Scotland


GordonS

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Unless they wanted to be really ballsy with Gilmour, there wasn't much opportunity to call him up imo:

September 2019 matches: he'd played fewer than 10 minutes of professional football

October 2019: around 100

November 2019: just under 2 matches' worth of minutes

March 2020: the games were obviously cancelled but I think he should've been called up for the play-off(s). Gemmill said he'd be staying with the u21s though

September 2020: injured

October 2020: injured

November 2020: just back from an injury so was put in u21s (where he didn't start) to help build fitness

March 2021: should've been called up but as far as I remember was almost completely out of the picture at Chelsea

Euros: first call-up

Since Strachan left, I think we've been fairly quick to get the best youngsters with the first team. Turnbull and Gilmour were a couple of months too late and there might have been a shout for Patterson in March 2021 too, but the very best (and even the very average under McLeish) tend to get a sniff fairly early. Doig, Hickey and Ramsay are hopefully the next lot but there are obviously difficulties with each of them (terrific prospects or terrific players already in their positions).

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17 minutes ago, accies1874 said:

Unless they wanted to be really ballsy with Gilmour, there wasn't much opportunity to call him up imo:

September 2019 matches: he'd played fewer than 10 minutes of professional football

October 2019: around 100

November 2019: just under 2 matches' worth of minutes

March 2020: the games were obviously cancelled but I think he should've been called up for the play-off(s). Gemmill said he'd be staying with the u21s though

September 2020: injured

October 2020: injured

November 2020: just back from an injury so was put in u21s (where he didn't start) to help build fitness

March 2021: should've been called up but as far as I remember was almost completely out of the picture at Chelsea

Euros: first call-up

Since Strachan left, I think we've been fairly quick to get the best youngsters with the first team. Turnbull and Gilmour were a couple of months too late and there might have been a shout for Patterson in March 2021 too, but the very best (and even the very average under McLeish) tend to get a sniff fairly early. Doig, Hickey and Ramsay are hopefully the next lot but there are obviously difficulties with each of them (terrific prospects or terrific players already in their positions).

I won't disagree with you on the Strachan point - we've definitely got better at it.  And perhaps the caveats for Gilmour are sufficient evidence for the defence.

Porteous, McCrorie, Ferguson, Turnbull, Gilmour, and Patterson all called up in the last 12 months, which is far more progress than we ever made under Strachan.  Good to see fewer Championship haddies being given 3 caps and a few shirts to hang up.

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Just had a look back over the last 5 years of internationals from today’s date. We have played 19 away games and the only team of any standing we have beaten is the Czech Republic 2nd team in the Nations League.

The other wins were the likes of Gibraltar, San Marino, Malta, Cyprus and a decent 3-0 win in Lithuania.

I’m not sure what makes anyone think we are capable of winning in Austria, regardless of how many players they might be missing on the night

From a form and stats point of view, if we can shitfest a draw, we will be playing to expectations

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5 hours ago, Melanius Mullarkey said:

A Scotland supporter from the borders doesn’t know who one our countries promising prospects is despite playing regularly for his club in Scotlands top flight and has recently been the subject of debate about whether he should be in the 19s or 21s setup? 
 

Hopefully Steve Clarke is reading this and taking notes.

Nope, never heard of him. Not sure why this is causing such incredulity. What constitutes 'regularly' up Aberdeen way? He has a career total of 3 League starts, all of which were last month and plays in the Premiership, a League my club dont play in.

He may be the next Andy Robertson but chances are I hadnt heard of him after half a dozen senior games either.

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4 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Nope, never heard of him. Not sure why this is causing such incredulity. What constitutes 'regularly' up Aberdeen way? He has a career total of 3 League starts, all of which were last month and plays in the Premiership, a League my club dont play in.

He may be the next Andy Robertson but chances are I hadnt heard of him after half a dozen senior games either.

To be fair he started playing regularly towards the end of last season as well after McInnes left so he probably has more than that as well as playing regularly in the European games this season etc.

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2 hours ago, HuttonDressedAsLahm said:

This is first rate nonsense.  Ethan Ampadu has 27 caps for Wales at the age of 20.  He had 13 caps whilst having played 12 senior games for Chelsea. 

We continuously fail to give youth a chance, even when it was so very obvious that they were capable.  How Gilmour is capable of playing Champions League football, and bossing a strong Liverpool team, but only good enough for Scotland, Scotland!, u21s shows exactly what we are.

Nobody is making out Patterson to be the next Cafu or Zambrotta, but he's quite some bit better than SOD, Paterson, and any number of other available right backs. Young players make mistakes, whether they are playing 40 games a season, or 10.  Patterson is demonstrably the best right back we have but it is possible to recognise that and still think that SOD should start against Denmark and Austria.

That noted, we threw in SOD against Peru and Mexico with zero international experience and having not long finished played for Luton Town.  I'd politely suggest that playing 80 games against Carlisle doesn't provide much in the way of preparation for international football. 

Gilmour has clearly been brought in at the right time and is going to win 100+ caps. As someone else has said above, he’s not really had the chance to come in any earlier than he did.

Theres a big jump from his obvious ability and standing for the champions of England and a guy like Patterson who might - depending on the fitness of another player - play only a dozen or so games in the Scottish Premiership this season. I don’t personally believe he has proven that he is “demonstrably” our best right back. I don’t think at this stage he’s a better defender than SOD for a start. I don’t doubt he’s better going forward already.

It is absolutely critical that he (and Ramsay) get plenty of first team experience in the immediate future. Ramsay will, Patterson might not - and that’s a real shame.

Ampadu is an irrelevance here - his career to date is more akin to Gilmour than Patterson.

Edited by Jamie_Beatson
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6 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

It's relevant because I didn't know who he was. Not sure why that needs to be considered any more deeply than that?

It's not that big a surprise given he appears to have a total of 3 League starts to his name in his entire career, all in the last month. 

At least do your research. 7 league starts, 4 last season, 3 this. 17 first team starts in all, including last season’s Scottish Cup and this season’s Europa Conference.

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2 hours ago, HuttonDressedAsLahm said:

Maybe. But they have a midfield of Swindon and Portsmouth players, and they qualify and we don't.

I mean, Wales have qualified for just 1 more Euros than us since 1998, and 0 World Cups.

Thats despite them having one of the best players on the planet, and a CM whos one of Europes elite and plays for Juventus.

So aye, we pap a cap at some 16yo kid far too early, bring in a generational talent to score a goal a game, and we'll maybe make one more tournament than we would usually.

Truly the Welsh model is one we need to follow. Get Leon King capped pronto.

Edited by RandomGuy.
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58 minutes ago, Crùbag said:

Not sure. Wouldn't stop Clarke trying it though.

I dunno, it seems a bit harsh to criticise Clarke for calling up someone who at least plays right back to cover right back, rather than a centre half who’s definitely worse than at least 3 of the current squad at are centre half.

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Ramsey and Patterson are at the same stage, where they're unlikely to be ready for an important away game against a side of Austrias quality. Nor is it really fair to put them into that situation, considering how the Scottish fanbase act.

Either go into that game and get a fucking roasting, and the entire country is calling them shite and hounding them for the rest of time. Let them develop and grow before exposing them to that, IMO.

FWIW if Ramsey continues to be Aberdeens first choice, while Patterson continues to fester on Rangers bench, then it shouldn't be a discussion about whos next in line. Patterson really needs to be playing every week at this stage, he turns 20 next month and is older than Aaron Hickey, its not like hes some raw 17yo. He can't afford to be turning 23 and having under 50 senior games. 

Edited by RandomGuy.
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15 minutes ago, kingjoey said:

At least do your research. 7 league starts, 4 last season, 3 this. 17 first team starts in all, including last season’s Scottish Cup and this season’s Europa Conference.

I think they’ve only just received Wikipedia down there Joey.

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