Improving the current Strikers

[Gordopolis]

We all want to unearth a Scottish Lewandowski. Christ, even a Scottish Danny Ings would be decent. But rather than hoping that might happen, how can we go about honing the guys we do have in the current cycle, guys who are - relatively - of a similar standard to what we've had for the last 20 years (middling EPL -> hopeful Scottish top flight).

 

Going to put my cock on the line here, but how's about this:

 

Back in 2004/5, Ally McCoist came in as part of the Scotland team, and played a part in transforming Kenny Miller from an 18 cap, 2 goal non entity, into a good goal/assist threat for us.

Listening to McCoist tonight on co-commentary, he called out every single one of Dykes' Nisbet's, Gilmour's and Tierney's mistakes in terms of positioning, timing, anticipation and more when those players were in with chances.

 

Dykes particularly looks like a player with massive deficiencies in his game that could be fairly straightforwardly coached out of him to make him less of a handsome, slow version of Oliver Burke.

 

So given SC's seemingly revolving door back room team... Why not bring in a proven finisher like McCoist to try to sharpen the strikers' patterns of play and thought?

 

 

[Tartan Blood]

15 minutes ago, Gordopolis said:

 

We all want to unearth a Scottish Lewandowski. Christ, even a Scottish Danny Ings would be decent. But rather than hoping that might happen, how can we go about honing the guys we do have in the current cycle, guys who are - relatively - of a similar standard to what we've had for the last 20 years (middling EPL -> hopeful Scottish top flight).

 

Going to put my cock on the line here, but how's about this:

 

Back in 2004/5, Ally McCoist came in as part of the Scotland team, and played a part in transforming Kenny Miller from an 18 cap, 2 goal non entity, into a good goal/assist threat for us.

Listening to McCoist tonight on co-commentary, he called out every single one of Dykes' Nisbet's, Gilmour's and Tierney's mistakes in terms of positioning, timing, anticipation and more when those players were in with chances.

 

Dykes particularly looks like a player with massive deficiencies in his game that could be fairly straightforwardly coached out of him to make him less of a handsome, slow version of Oliver Burke.

 

So given SC's seemingly revolving door back room team... Why not bring in a proven finisher like McCoist to try to sharpen the strikers' patterns of play and thought?

 

 

 

You're not wrong with anything you say, but these are deep seated problems that can't really be fixed with a few days of prep. The poor decision making, movement, and instinctual finishing are things that should be coached and practised at club level. The problem is that we are expecting strikers to be banging in loads of goals when they don't even do that at their clubs.

Saying that, apparently Gilmour still has coaches at Chelsea watching his games and analysing his performances to give him feedback on how to improve at Norwich. If we could have a striker coach at Scotland who will continue to work with them inbetween internationals as well, I'd be happy with that.

[Jambomo]

I’d happily have McCoist as a strikers coach. He was an excellent striker and certainly would have plenty of advice to pass on. 

I do feel a bit for Clarke though, as mentioned above they should be working on this with their clubs, there’s only so much you can do with the limited time you have with the players. Some of the missed chances are basic things that they shouldn’t need Clarke or any other coach to teach them.

[Gordopolis]

I'm in total agreement with both replies so far - our strikers *should* be coming to the national team gatherings brimful of confidence and in sharp shooting form.

But the reality is they're turning up with a middling to poor scoring record. We can't change their club form, and we can't magic up new forwards. So let's focus on what we can change - the sharpness with which our existing pool go into international games.

Those few days before our fixtures aren't much in the grand scheme of things, but they are our only opportunity to instill a bit more of a lethal instinct into the strikers.

The backroom team just now is... Chris Woods and Stevie Naismith I think? Not bad, but clearly could be better in terms of perfecting our finishing. And the reality is we've been lamenting "if only we had taken our chances" since every game following the Serbia win.

Anyway, I'm rambling. Tl;dr: let's get a good striking coach in.

[BFTD]

In recent times, we've had a few strikers who've had decent goalscoring records in the English Championship. Is it just that the Championship is a poorer standard than many like to let on, that the players at their clubs are generally better than those in the Scotland squad, or that they play in squads with different formations/tactics that are better suited to making chances for them? A bit of everything?

Anyway, I'm not sure that international coaches would be able to solve big deficiencies in technique or tactics in the short spells they spend with the players, but surely goalscoring must be the highest priority for Steve Clarke at the moment. We've improved at the back since he took over, but we're less of a threat than at any time I can remember, and that's saying something. It seems like a sensible idea to have somebody on staff to fix that.

[2426255]

In fairness Steve Clarke is borrowing players as has already been mentioned. I think the addition of Austin McPhee is partly an attempt at improving our goal scoring in a roundabout way.

[Cptn Hooch]

16 hours ago, Gordopolis said:

Dykes particularly looks like a player with massive deficiencies in his game that could be fairly straightforwardly coached out of him to make him less of a handsome, slow version of Oliver Burke.

 

Lyndon grew up playing Rugby league and has only been playing/following football for around 8 years. He came to Livi with a not great scoring record and having played more as a winger/attacking midfielder at QoS, but Gary Maley (our 3rd choice keeper/coach/mascot) did some 1 on 1 coaching around finishing etc and it brought him on leaps and bounds. He's also spoke very highly of the advice Stephen Dobbie gave him around finishing. Pretty sure if someone like McCoist was to work with Lyndon he would improve greatly

[Monkey Tennis]

17 hours ago, Gordopolis said:

Those few days before our fixtures aren't much in the grand scheme of things, but they are our only opportunity to instill a bit more of a lethal instinct into the strikers.
 

I think the contradiction in terms here is revealing.

I do take your point about our strikers' deficiencies, but I'm not just being a pedantic dick in highlighting the challenges in instilling something you recognise as properly instinctive.

Of course, players can learn things and improve.  The problem with Dykes for instance, however, is simply that he's not terribly good at football.  He's really not.  He maybe can offer something to a side looking to play in a particular way, but he's not going to become a dangerous finisher at that level.  He simply lacks the necessary ability.

 

Last night's misses came mainly from midfielders and even defenders anyway. 

Edited September 5, 2021 by Monkey Tennis

[Gordopolis]

I think the contradiction in terms here is revealing.
I do take your point about our strikers' deficiencies, but I'm not just being a pedantic dick in highlighting the challenges in instilling something you recognise as properly instinctive.
Of course, players can learn things and improve.  The problem with Dykes for instance, however, is simply that he's not terribly good at football.  He's really not.  He maybe can offer something to a side looking to play in a particular way, but he's not going to become a dangerous finisher at that level.  He simply lacks the necessary ability.
 
Last night's misses came mainly from midfielders and even defenders anyway. 

Ah, yeah, clumsy choice of words from me. For instinct, read edge.

Dykes looked very limited last night and has done for some time, but as pointed out he has improved rapidly in the past with a few shoves in the right direction. He'll never become an elite player, but i just feel there's still potential to make him a much more consistent and all-round menace up front.

You're right that I don't think he actually missed any chances last night, but he was absolutely guilty of failing to be in the right place to get a chance a few times (one a cross or corner where, as McCoist said, pull a few metres back and he's got a free hit at goal). Also in the build up aspects of his and Nisbet's game, we saw their play breaking down several phases before we even got to chance creation, and each time an exasperated McCoist instinctively (mean it this time!) called out the flaws in their decision making. A smart word or two in their ears from someone like him won't turn them into world beaters, but it could make the difference in crucial and tight games.

[Cptn Hooch]

33 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

The problem with Dykes for instance, however, is simply that he's not terribly good at football. 

 

Harsh when he's not been raised with the game and when you consider the improvements he's made in such a short time. I'm not saying he's the Scottish Ronaldo but I'm sure he can improve further

[Derry Alli]

Dykes hit somewhat of a "purple patch" and was rewarded - handsomely - much beyond his ability. Its time for the experiment to stop, thank him for his efforts and release him back out into the wild. 

[kingjoey]

In our last 5 competitive matches, ie our last 5 matches, we have had a total of 62 (SIXTY TWO) attempts at the oppositions goal, and scored twice (TWICE). That is not poor, that is not bad, that is not awful, that is f*ck*ng atrocious. Whatever is happening in training, it is not working. Things have to be changed and I would suggest the biggest change that can be made, given that we really have no striking alternatives to bring in, is a striking coach as has already been suggested. Keep doing the same things and you get the same outcome. 

[Scumjob]

I am not sure Dykes, Adams or Nisbet are ever going to score loads but your suggestion seems to have merit.

Previously we had Fraser, Christie and McGinn all looking like they were chipping in with goals so perhaps we need to focus on creating more chances for those boys. Turnbull could be an interesting addition to that mix too given he's a regular scorer at club level.

I didn't really think of McFadden as an out and out striker and he was never prolific at club level after leaving Motherwell but he finished nigh on 1 in 3 for Scotland. Perhaps we just need to find the right system to squeeze the most goals out of someone.

[Jambomo]

24 minutes ago, Scumjob said:

I am not sure Dykes, Adams or Nisbet are ever going to score loads but your suggestion seems to have merit.

Previously we had Fraser, Christie and McGinn all looking like they were chipping in with goals so perhaps we need to focus on creating more chances for those boys. Turnbull could be an interesting addition to that mix too given he's a regular scorer at club level.

I didn't really think of McFadden as an out and out striker and he was never prolific at club level after leaving Motherwell but he finished nigh on 1 in 3 for Scotland. Perhaps we just need to find the right system to squeeze the most goals out of someone.

I think McGinn is a bit like that. We are probably getting the best we can out of him goalwise, I think he’s better at that for Scotland than he is for Villa.

[Bing.McCrosby]

20 hours ago, Gordopolis said:

 

We all want to unearth a Scottish Lewandowski. Christ, even a Scottish Danny Ings would be decent. But rather than hoping that might happen, how can we go about honing the guys we do have in the current cycle, guys who are - relatively - of a similar standard to what we've had for the last 20 years (middling EPL -> hopeful Scottish top flight).

 

Going to put my cock on the line here, but how's about this:

 

Back in 2004/5, Ally McCoist came in as part of the Scotland team, and played a part in transforming Kenny Miller from an 18 cap, 2 goal non entity, into a good goal/assist threat for us.

Listening to McCoist tonight on co-commentary, he called out every single one of Dykes' Nisbet's, Gilmour's and Tierney's mistakes in terms of positioning, timing, anticipation and more when those players were in with chances.

 

Dykes particularly looks like a player with massive deficiencies in his game that could be fairly straightforwardly coached out of him to make him less of a handsome, slow version of Oliver Burke.

 

So given SC's seemingly revolving door back room team... Why not bring in a proven finisher like McCoist to try to sharpen the strikers' patterns of play and thought?

Honestly bud

If your plan is to bring in Ally Mccoist the coach, who made an absolute arse of his only managers job. So much so he's never been employed again.

To try and turn someone into Kenny Miller, an absolute haddy. Who failed miserably in England and was by and large shite for us.

Then Im telling you as a favour, take your cock off the line and put it away. Its a crap idea.

I dont think the answer to our striker issues necessarily has to be Scottish. I think the state were in now the last thing we need is another Scottish coach. We've been trying that a long time now.

There have been alot of strikers from all over the world who were better players than Mccoist. Sure plenty have went onto become coach's.

 

 

[2426255]

3 hours ago, BingMcCrosby said:

Then Im telling you as a favour , take your cock off the line and put it away. Its a crap idea.

Right, Bing said it's a crap idea so that's that then. 

Edited September 5, 2021 by 2426255

[ropy]

Take the players on to the pitch before the match and point out that the goals are on the ground.  Make it clear to them that zero per cent of balls fired 10-30 feet in the air will result in a goal.  Ask them to think of an alternative strategy and use the warm up to try it out.

[Willie adie]

Any of our top three premier Division goalscorers since 1975 McCoist, Robertson or Coyne, would be invaluable

[kingjoey]

5 minutes ago, Willie adie said:

Any of our top three premier Division goalscorers since 1975 McCoist, Robertson or Coyne, would be invaluable

You’re right, Eire could really be doing with Tommy Coyne. (Apologies if this was a joke)

[Willie adie]

Aye I know that Tommy represented Ireland but  he is still number 3 on the all time Scottish top scorer since 1975

How about Eric Black, retired from the game full time but could maybe persuaded to get on board with the national side, others like Kevin Gallacher, Paul Sturrock, any good finisher that has played at a high level, I've always thought we should invite different coaches along to each get together, they will all have something to offer, and if it gives us that wee bit of something that gets us a better side it's worth it