Denmark v Scotland

[Insert Amusing Pseudonym]

Ireland,  7 pts behind 2nd place in the group with 5 games remaining having lost every game and not won a competitive match since 2019 against Gibraltar.

I think we can aim higher tbh

[Insert Amusing Pseudonym]

27 minutes ago, shugster said:

12 hours ago, Jim McLean said:

And of course bottler Clarke was too afraid to start Fraser at RWB and shoehorned dud McKenna in at LCB.

McKenna wasn't the worst on the park by far. Robertson is vastly overrated, Tierney is an average EPL player along with McLean. Gordon is poor with the ball at his feet. Gilmour shows flashes of skill but his confidence must be low playing in a shite EPL team and an international team just above San Marino.

Robertson is a world class footballer who Scotland can't get the best out of.

He's not in any way overrated

[2426255]

1 hour ago, HuttonDressedAsLahm said:

5atb doesn't make us more defensively sound.  It surrenders the midfield and invites the opposition onto us.  It seemed to work initially (with Czechs, Slovakia, Serbia, and Israel all failing to beat us, and keeping a few clean sheets), but since that Serbia game we've looked like conceding goals in near enough every game. 

What would you suggest?

[Ken Deans]

What a combination. Arrogance Negligence and Incompetence. If it had just been last night fair enough but it's not has it. Euros blown by baffling selections and you're not telling me the players can't see it. New contract Stevie? Unbelievable Jeff

[shugster]

You have your opinion I have mine, that's football in a nutshell, two differing opinions neither right neither wrong.

Robertson is a world class footballer who Scotland can't get the best out of.
He's not in any way overrated

[Insert Amusing Pseudonym]

46 minutes ago, shugster said:

You have your opinion I have mine, that's football in a nutshell, two differing opinions neither right neither wrong.

Yours is clearly wrong though

[QOSfan019]

18 hours ago, Lex said:

FT 2-0
Comfortably beaten by a better team with a better manager. No surprises really.
Denmark were probably the kindest draw we could have got out of pot one, but they’ve still got much too much for us.
Can’t really see any positives from that. The last twenty minutes were an improvement bit that’s clearly because Denmark were going through the motions.
Thought Tierney had another poor game and was at fault for the first goal. Adams was awful and was rightly hooked. Be interested how committed he stays when it’s clear we won’t be going to the World Cup. He wasn’t interested in playing us before we qualified for the Euros after all.
Only two to get pass marks for me are Gilmour and Hanley I think. Gilmour must be sick of playing for rubbish teams, first Norwich and now Scotland. He’s certainly not great but was the best of a bad bunch. Hanley is a limited player but he puts himself about a bit and if it wasn’t for him we’d have lost by more.
Top spot is gone. We need six points from Moldova and Austria to get second I think. Four would keep us alive but needing an unlikely turn of events. Three or less and we are out and Clarke should be sacked.

Completely agree 

[Bing.McCrosby]

2 hours ago, shugster said:

You have your opinion I have mine, that's football in a nutshell, two differing opinions neither right neither wrong.

The trophys Robertson has won so far in his career, as a first choice player not a squad passenger proves this opinion to be nonsense.

Hes done well for us, but were not getting the best out of him.

[Ewan8472]

7 hours ago, 2426255 said:

What would you suggest?

4 - 4 - 2  ?        4 - 4 - 1 - 1  ?

Tierney as left full back , Robertson on bench ?

[Monkey Tennis]

12 hours ago, accies1874 said:

@mods can I mute the phrase "two penalty shootouts"?

It genuinely is the sum total of things achieved under this manager.

As such, it's a useful and relevant phrase in the context of what's being discussed.

[accies1874]

It genuinely is the sum total of things achieved under this manager.
As such, it's a useful and relevant phrase in the context of what's being discussed.

I too base my opinions of a football manager on a scroll through "FlashScore UK".

[Monkey Tennis]

5 minutes ago, accies1874 said:

9 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

It genuinely is the sum total of things achieved under this manager.
As such, it's a useful and relevant phrase in the context of what's being discussed.

I too base my opinions of a football manager on a scroll through "FlashScore UK".

That, I'm afraid, is the post of an imbecile.

It's very difficult to highlight much else that's been positive during his reign.  It's true that we got to the Euros, courtesy of winning on penalties twice.  As you'll know from your apparently extensive research, it was McLeish who had reached the stage requiring only that.

Under Clarke, we struggled in our Euros qualifying group, we performed poorly at the finals, we messed up the Nations' League having reached a Covid induced strong position, and we've made a dismal start to this World Cup campaign.

If you've unearthed evidence of vast progress from somewhere I lack the wits to look, please share it with the rest of us.

[wastecoatwilly]

1 hour ago, Monkey Tennis said:

That, I'm afraid, is the post of an imbecile.

It's very difficult to highlight much else that's been positive during his reign.  It's true that we got to the Euros, courtesy of winning on penalties twice.  As you'll know from your apparently extensive research, it was McLeish who had reached the stage requiring only that.

Under Clarke, we struggled in our Euros qualifying group, we performed poorly at the finals, we messed up the Nations' League having reached a Covid induced strong position, and we've made a dismal start to this World Cup campaign.

If you've unearthed evidence of vast progress from somewhere I lack the wits to look, please share it with the rest of us.

If our default position is not laying a glove on Denmark it's very poor,no hard to beat or dogged mentality easy to roll over and play in second gear for the second half.
Clarke does seem to be more worried about the opposition than creating his own style of play for Scotland after 2 years in charge.
If hes stuck in trying to get Tierney and Robertson on the park in every game then he is limited in finding a way to play.
Fans get hung up on formations Clarke talks about having two it's still hard to see if one has been successful. 
 

[shugster]

It's not nonsense it's an opinion. You can bang on and bang on and it won't make me change my opinion. It's the inability to accept that someone can a different opinion that is a nonsense, that is a typical myopic football fan attitude.

The trophys Robertson has won so far in his career, as a first choice player not a squad passenger proves this opinion to be nonsense.
Hes done well for us, but were not getting the best out of him.

[accies1874]

That, I'm afraid, is the post of an imbecile.
It's very difficult to highlight much else that's been positive during his reign.  It's true that we got to the Euros, courtesy of winning on penalties twice.  As you'll know from your apparently extensive research, it was McLeish who had reached the stage requiring only that.
Under Clarke, we struggled in our Euros qualifying group, we performed poorly at the finals, we messed up the Nations' League having reached a Covid induced strong position, and we've made a dismal start to this World Cup campaign.
If you've unearthed evidence of vast progress from somewhere I lack the wits to look, please share it with the rest of us.

We clearly deserved to qualify. We finished third in our group (which would have been enough had we done so in 2016) and were the better team in both play-offs. If McTominay hadn't missed a sitter v Israel and switched off v Serbia then we wouldn't be talking about "two penalty shootouts" - that's the fault of a player, not the manager.

If we took one of our many chances against Slovakia then we wouldn't be talking about "messing up the Nations League" - that was poor finishing from individuals, not the manager.

2021 hasn't been a good year and Clarke's made some stupid mistakes, but we have only had two bad performances and they were against top opposition. Israel was awful in the first half but we got our act together in the second and became the better side. Hell, even against Croatia we created a few chances. The results haven't, imo, matched the general performances (which have rarely been excellent but certainly haven't deserved to be compared with McLeish's shitshow).

[HuttonDressedAsLahm]

13 minutes ago, accies1874 said:

 

 

We clearly deserved to qualify. We finished third in our group (which would have been enough had we done so in 2016) and were the better team in both play-offs. If McTominay hadn't missed a sitter v Israel and switched off v Serbia then we wouldn't be talking about "two penalty shootouts" - that's the fault of a player, not the manager.

If we took one of our many chances against Slovakia then we wouldn't be talking about "messing up the Nations League" - that was poor finishing from individuals, not the manager.

2021 hasn't been a good year and Clarke's made some stupid mistakes, but we have only had two bad performances and they were against top opposition. Israel was awful in the first half but we got our act together in the second and became the better side. Hell, even against Croatia we created a few chances. The results haven't, imo, matched the general performances (which have rarely been excellent but certainly haven't deserved to be compared with McLeish's shitshow).

 

Those aren't unfair points - both Dykes and Adam would have likely scored the chances squandered by McBurnie in the Slovakia game.  

The real problem is that despite having great players we are still too capable of very weak performances.  The way we took the game to Serbia and pressed the living daylights out of them, and the high intensity against England hasn't been matched in any other game.  That is a psychology and team setup problem.  

Ultimately, those performances are worthless if you're susceptible to meekness, and spineless performances.

Moldova are the type of stuffy team we typically beat 2-0, or 2-1.  We should be looking for improvement across the board, including on Saturday.  If we can put 4 or 5 past them, whilst giving game time to a few new faces, then that would be useful.

I'd expect to see some changes for Saturday, but we have the strength in depth to build a couple of attacking teams for games like this.

[Insert Amusing Pseudonym]

1 hour ago, shugster said:

It's not nonsense it's an opinion. You can bang on and bang on and it won't make me change my opinion. It's the inability to accept that someone can a different opinion that is a nonsense, that is a typical myopic football fan attitude.

Opinions can be wrong.  If I said I thought Lionel Messi was shit, it would be both an opinion and bollocks.

So while you can have the opinion that Robertson is vastly overrated, it's a stupid opinion and provably wrong through evidence of what he's achieved

[eez-eh]

1 hour ago, accies1874 said:

We clearly deserved to qualify. We finished third in our group (which would have been enough had we done so in 2016) and were the better team in both play-offs. If McTominay hadn't missed a sitter v Israel and switched off v Serbia then we wouldn't be talking about "two penalty shootouts" - that's the fault of a player, not the manager.

If we took one of our many chances against Slovakia then we wouldn't be talking about "messing up the Nations League" - that was poor finishing from individuals, not the manager.

2021 hasn't been a good year and Clarke's made some stupid mistakes, but we have only had two bad performances and they were against top opposition. Israel was awful in the first half but we got our act together in the second and became the better side. Hell, even against Croatia we created a few chances. The results haven't, imo, matched the general performances (which have rarely been excellent but certainly haven't deserved to be compared with McLeish's shitshow).

 

I can’t agree with giving the manager a pass because of individual mistakes, but then giving them all the credit for individual pieces of quality (e.g. Christie’s goal). We performed well in the game against Serbia but it wasn’t flawless - the subs made by Clarke towards the end resulted in us being under so much pressure leading up to the goal, and thereafter we were dead on our feet the whole of extra time because we’d taken off all 3 of our biggest attacking threats, leaving us punting long balls up to Oli McBurnie and Callum Paterson.

You mention the difference between halves in the Israel game. It’s encouraging that he’s prepared to fix things mid game, but the problem is he then reverts back to the same starting tactics for the next game. Slow starts and too much apprehension is a common theme emerging.

I don’t want him gone, he deserves to the end of this campaign at least, but there’s been a few concerning signs emerging.

[No_Problemo]

10 minutes ago, eez-eh said:

I can’t agree with giving the manager a pass because of individual mistakes, but then giving them all the credit for individual pieces of quality (e.g. Christie’s goal). We performed well in the game against Serbia but it wasn’t flawless - the subs made by Clarke towards the end resulted in us being under so much pressure leading up to the goal, and thereafter we were dead on our feet the whole of extra time because we’d taken off all 3 of our biggest attacking threats, leaving us punting long balls up to Oli McBurnie and Callum Paterson.

You mention the difference between halves in the Israel game. It’s encouraging that he’s prepared to fix things mid game, but the problem is he then reverts back to the same starting tactics for the next game. Slow starts and too much apprehension is a common theme emerging.

I don’t want him gone, he deserves to the end of this campaign at least, but there’s been a few concerning signs emerging.

Good point about the Serbia subs - Patterson and McBurnie were so woefully bad when they came on that at least one of them should have been subbed back off again when it went to extra time. 
 

Even against Israel, we got back into the game and were well on top in the second half but as soon as we equalised began to sit back again and let Israel back into it. 

[accies1874]

I can’t agree with giving the manager a pass because of individual mistakes, but then giving them all the credit for individual pieces of quality (e.g. Christie’s goal). We performed well in the game against Serbia but it wasn’t flawless - the subs made by Clarke towards the end resulted in us being under so much pressure leading up to the goal, and thereafter we were dead on our feet the whole of extra time because we’d taken off all 3 of our biggest attacking threats, leaving us punting long balls up to Oli McBurnie and Callum Paterson.
You mention the difference between halves in the Israel game. It’s encouraging that he’s prepared to fix things mid game, but the problem is he then reverts back to the same starting tactics for the next game. Slow starts and too much apprehension is a common theme emerging.
I don’t want him gone, he deserves to the end of this campaign at least, but there’s been a few concerning signs emerging.

I agree with everything in this post (although I believe Clarke deserves credit for Christie's goal as, as I remember, we won the ball high up as a result of the tactics).

All I'm trying to say is looking at the results doesn't paint the full picture. We can probably say now that McLeish only had one really bad result but it's pretty much accepted that his tenure was a disaster.