SNP / Green and their Cooperation Agreement

[Ric]

13 hours ago, Jacksgranda said:

Where does it say in that piece the DUP got the money?

The money went to the NI Executive - "The £1bn is specific to the jurisdiction of Northern Ireland and is in addition to funding pledged as a result of the Stormont House Agreement and Fresh Start Agreement. An estimated £420m remains to be spent."

"This arrangement was formalised right away after the election in a Confidence and Supply Agreement between the DUP and the Conservative Party, on 26 June 2017. The Government agreed to provide the Northern Ireland Executive with additional financial support: £1 billion over five years."

So we can put the lie to bed that the DUP received "vast fortunes".

I know you are not a young gentleman, but I didn't realise you were this naive.

The Government specifically changed funding amount and timings of the payments based entirely on the agreement with the DUP.

No agreement, no extra funding. With agreement, then extra funding. If you think that isn't a bribe, then I doubt you ever will. What were you expecting, a ribbon cutting exercise accompanied by a ceremonial handing over of a large brown envelope stuffed with cash?

Edited August 22, 2021 by Ric

[Ric]

15 hours ago, Baxter Parp said:

Careful, your homophobia's showing.

I don't know which publication this is, but my money is on the Daily Mail. I would say "Scottish" edition but we all know there is nothing Scottish about it, nothing but English propaganda. Which is fine, it's a free country, doesn't stop them being lying duplicitous supporters of casual racism mixed with shitty jumps in conclusion so lengthy that they would impress Jonathon Edwards.

[Jacksgranda]

11 minutes ago, Ric said:

I know you are not a young gentleman, but I didn't realise you were this naive.

The Government specifically changed funding amount and timings of the payments based entirely on the agreement with the DUP.

No agreement, no extra funding. With agreement, then extra funding. If you think that isn't a bribe, then I doubt you ever will. What were you expecting, a ribbon cutting exercise accompanied by a ceremonial handing over of a large brown envelope stuffed with cash?

The DUP didn't get any money, which is what you stated in your opening post.

I'm sure you're not so naive that you don't understand this is how politics works.

Any party in their position at that time would have done the same thing, or got even more concessions.

Your third paragraph is stating the bleeding obvious. Why would the government give NI extra funding with no agreement (on the supply and confidence measure)? Out of the goodness of their heart? Your last sentence says more about you than it does me.

[GTG_03]

7 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

Telling the truth is splitting hairs?

There is much to crticise the DUP for, without posting lies - lies disproved by your own link - about them receiving "vast fortunes".

I'm quite happy that the DUP used their (then) political clout to chisel out another billion pounds for NI.

I never said they received vast fortunes, they did accept a billion pounds for NI. If you want to call it political clout then go for it but it's effectively a bribe and you know it. 

I wasn't too impressed with having the DUP twisting the government's arm especially given their 'traditional values' but it is what it is. 

[Ric]

48 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

The DUP didn't get any money, which is what you stated in your opening post.

Oh, so they didn't get money...

48 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

Any party in their position at that time would have done the same thing, or got even more concessions.

..but yet they did, and any other party would do the same?

2 lines in and your naivety goes out of the window and you are just out and out contradicting yourself.

 

48 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

Your third paragraph is stating the bleeding obvious. Why would the government give NI extra funding with no agreement (on the supply and confidence measure)? Out of the goodness of their heart? Your last sentence says more about you than it does me.

Oh, so they didn't get money...

..but yet they did?

 

You are looking extremely foolish here, something I honestly didn't think I'd ever write as you have, on the whole, been seemingly sensible in ever other exchange we've had.

It's entirely up to you whether you believe it, but when it looks like a duck (*bribe), walks like a duck (*bribe) and quacks like a duck (*bribe), then it's a....

The only person who genuinely thinks this isn't the case is you, even the DUP accept this was the case, albeit using typically DUP-esque language. What's more, when Johnson and Co reneged on his part of the deal, the DUP made it entirely clear they were expecting payment in full for their support.

 

[Jacksgranda]

6 minutes ago, GTG_03 said:

I never said they received vast fortunes, they did accept a billion pounds for NI. If you want to call it political clout then go for it but it's effectively a bribe and you know it. 

I wasn't too impressed with having the DUP twisting the government's arm especially given their 'traditional values' but it is what it is. 

Here's the conversation

On 20/08/2021 at 17:55, Ric said:

Also side stepping his own paymasters South of the border ramming home the highly dubious mandate of Brexit by having to pay vast fortunes to the DUP. 

 

 

 

18 hours ago, Jacksgranda said:

What "vast fortunes" did the DUP get?

There's the question

16 hours ago, GTG_03 said:

About a billion if I remember correctly.

Here's your answer

16 hours ago, Jacksgranda said:

Link, please

 

14 hours ago, GTG_03 said:

https://factcheckni.org/articles/has-the-dup-brought-an-extra-1bn/

Link proves DUP received no "vast fortunes".

14 hours ago, Jacksgranda said:

Where does it say in that piece the DUP got the money?

The money went to the NI Executive - "The £1bn is specific to the jurisdiction of Northern Ireland and is in addition to funding pledged as a result of the Stormont House Agreement and Fresh Start Agreement. An estimated £420m remains to be spent."

"This arrangement was formalised right away after the election in a Confidence and Supply Agreement between the DUP and the Conservative Party, on 26 June 2017. The Government agreed to provide the Northern Ireland Executive with additional financial support: £1 billion over five years."

So we can put the lie to bed that the DUP received "vast fortunes".

You did agree with the op that the DUP received "vast fortunes".

Whose pocket did this "bribe" end up in?

[Ric]

7 minutes ago, GTG_03 said:

I never said they received vast fortunes, they did accept a billion pounds for NI. If you want to call it political clout then go for it but it's effectively a bribe and you know it. 

I wasn't too impressed with having the DUP twisting the government's arm especially given their 'traditional values' but it is what it is. 

It seems that the DUP completely dropping their opposition to the Tory Brexit plans, supporting a minority government to push through legislation they could not have gotten past Parliament any other way, and recieving an increase in funding and support for policies which were core tenets of the DUP manifesto, and to do this at the exactly the right time for the vote in the house is not in any way a bribe.

What Jack's Granda seems to be suggesting is that this is entirely normal, parties change their considerably strong opposition to policies that would directly affect them at the drop of a hat, and that any financial lubrication is only a coincidence.

It beggars belief.

[Jacksgranda]

5 minutes ago, Ric said:

Oh, so they didn't get money...

 

 

Glad we agree the DUP didn't receive any money, far less "vast fortunes" as stated in your op.

[Ric]

2 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

Here's the conversation

 

There's the question

Here's your answer

 

Link proves DUP received no "vast fortunes".

You did agree with the op that the DUP received "vast fortunes".

Whose pocket did this "bribe" end up in?

What a fucking lunatic.

Honestly, if you genuinely think there wasn't a bribe here then you are the only one even the DUP accept that was the case.

 

[Ric]

Just now, Jacksgranda said:

Glad we agree the DUP didn't receive any money, far less "vast fortunes" as stated in your op.

Cutting and copying a line out of a reply to place it in a different context shows you have lost this argument and are desperately scrambling to defend an opinion that even the people who it involves accepts was the case.

[alta-pete]

Love to see it.

@Jacksgranda is I expect big enough and more than likely ugly enough to look after himself but it’s amusing for a Sunday morning to see the absolute pwning of @Ric, one of the more prominent 6th form fanboy bores.

Time well spent, mon ami.  

[Ric]

2 minutes ago, alta-pete said:

Love to see it.

@Jacksgranda is I expect big enough and more than likely ugly enough to look after himself but it’s amusing for a Sunday morning to see the absolute pwning of @Ric, one of the more prominent 6th form fanboy bores.

Time well spent, mon ami.  

"pwning"

What are you 12?

Edited August 22, 2021 by Ric

[G51]

2 hours ago, Theroadlesstravelled said:

Shocker than the same group of bigoted morons who vote Tory and voted No cause they support Rangers also hate the Greens.

 

pure bot

 

[strichener]

52 minutes ago, Ric said:

What a fucking lunatic.

Honestly, if you genuinely think there wasn't a bribe here then you are the only one even the DUP accept that was the case.

 

Sorry, but the only lunatic here is yourself.

You fucked up claiming the DUP received a bribe when what happened was that they secured additional money for the NI Assembly.  Never in the history of politics has such a thing ever happened (I mean the EU rebate was just the rest of the EU being nice to the UK for example)

Stop digging, accept that the DUP (the political party) received nothing and move on.  You are only making yourself look incredibly foolish.

 

[Ric]

Just now, strichener said:

Sorry, but the only lunatic here is yourself.

You fucked up claiming the DUP received a bribe when what happened was that they secured additional money for the NI Assembly.  Never in the history of politics has such a thing ever happened (I mean the EU rebate was just the rest of the EU being nice to the UK for example)

Stop digging, accept that the DUP (the political party) received nothing and move on.  You are only making yourself look incredibly foolish.

 

You are as bad as JG, it's all "concessions" or "secured additional money", then going on to say that this is "just normal politics".

The idea that the DUP altruistically flipped their very aggressive stance on a policy that is a core tenet of their manifesto, to do so in order to gain concessions or additional money, right at the very time the conservative government needed them in order to pass Brexit is just down right political myopia.

You both accept that the DUP "did very handsomely" out of the deal, a deal that would go hilariously sour because like a frog riding scorpion it's in their nature to f**k people over even if they are saving their (political) lives, but it seems your sticking point is with the word bribe as if it entails some shady street corner and a bloke in a dark trench coat.

It seems like you simply cannot see the wood for the trees, although it does suggest that you are both incapable of objectivity.

 

 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

There's no doubt the DUP were bribed - they just didn't get money directly themselves.

I suppose they they thought that securing extra monies for NI would help them in the electoral stakes - it appears though that that has been outweighed by them selling out on Brexit.

[Ric]

It's also notable that some posters will come to the defence of a party whose key politicians in no short measure...

* Deny evolution

* Deny climate change

* Are bigots and racists

* Are religious zealots

* Homo and transphobic.

 

The very fact that you would defend the "good nature" of a party containing prominent politicians who are considerably not of good nature, said an absolute shitload about both of you. Without going all Poe's Law, I fully expect you to state that Albert Speer was just a good architect and nothing more.
 

[Jacksgranda]

14 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

There's no doubt the DUP were bribed - they just didn't get money directly themselves.

I suppose they they thought that securing extra monies for NI would help them in the electoral stakes - it appears though that that has been outweighed by them selling out on Brexit.

Their Brexit policy was totally flawed - NI voted Remain, and the DUP never seemed to take that on board, in their desire to be "kingmakers".

I know the DUP campaigned for Leave but they really should have taken cognisance of the NI vote (despite it being a "bationwide"* tally). 

* Or even a "nationwide" tally.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Jacksgranda
Sleppnig

[SANTAN]

8 minutes ago, Ric said:

It's also notable that some posters will come to the defence of a party whose key politicians in no short measure...

* Deny evolution

* Deny climate change

* Are bigots and racists

* Are religious zealots

* Homo and transphobic.

 

The very fact that you would defend the "good nature" of a party containing prominent politicians who are considerably not of good nature, said an absolute shitload about both of you. Without going all Poe's Law, I fully expect you to state that Albert Speer was just a good architect and nothing more.
 

Go back to your Fernando Ricksen jokes wee man..

Edited August 22, 2021 by SANTAN

[Ric]

2 minutes ago, SANTAN said:

Go back to your Fernando Ricksen jokes wee man.

Still annoyed at that?

So annoyed you will ignore the evidence to my claims?

Yup, both of those things.

Enjoy dining out on this succulent lamb: https://www.indy100.com/news/dup-theresa-may-tory-deal-alliance-minority-government-quotes-arlene-foster-lgbt-abortion-religion-7783241

Let's check..

Deny evolution [✓], Deny climate change [✓], Are bigots and racists [✓], Are religious zealots [✓], Homo and transphobic [✓]

 

Ooft, 5 out of 5 big man, just where do you go from here?

 

 

Edited August 22, 2021 by Ric