SNP / Green and their Cooperation Agreement

[Ric]

So much to say about this, much of which would be positive. However let's start out by laughing at Gypsy-hater Douglas Ross, as he spits feathers.

Poor ol' Dougy boy is right miffed, claiming it's all about independence and that the Greens shouldn't have this sort of representation. The Greens were all list MSPs, but we should just ignore that tories got >85% of their seats via the list system too - including the Dougster himself.  Rather interestingly, he completely glosses over his calls for tactical voting at the Scottish Elections in order to return a unionist majority. Now, apparently, such agreements is an outrage. Also side stepping his own paymasters South of the border ramming home the highly dubious mandate of Brexit by having to pay vast fortunes to the DUP. All this from a man who considered Holyrood to be so secondary he retains his Westminster seat. Always nice to have a second job to keep the bills paid, right?

Anyway, for anyone not yet aware, here is the agreement (in draft form): https://www.gov.scot/publications/scottish-government-and-scottish-green-party-cooperation-agreement/

And here is how the BBC are covering it: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-58272209

 

 

[BigDoddyKane]

Id like to see the SNP come out against any new oilfields now, hopefully thats part of the agreement. 

 

Just read your link and I see that it deosnt include that, thats a missed opportunity imo 

The rest of it seems ok though

Edited August 20, 2021 by BigDoddyKane

[Ric]

3 minutes ago, BigDoddyKane said:

Id like to see the SNP come out against any new oilfields now, hopefully thats part of the agreement. 

With the power reserved at Westminster you can be sure it'll be leveraged.

[Clown Job]

I’m already loving some of the tears about this 

 

[NotThePars]

I know if 98% of the commentariat were asked to justify why they were are supposed to be notable pundits they couldn't but John Rentoul continues to be one of the most baffling. I don't know anything insightful he's ever supposed to have said.

Edited August 20, 2021 by NotThePars

[supermik]

Nippy is going to need a bigger bed.

[Abdul_Latif]

Don’t see it lasting more than a year tbh. 
 

The Greens will eventually get pissed off with SNP inaction as regards climate change, transport etc as they are trying to please too many people to get their Indy vote.

[jamamafegan]

It’s brilliant for Scotland, and comes at a crucial time given the escalating climate crisis. The SNP need a massive boot up the arse with regards to C02 emissions and ecological restoration. The greens will press them on that. My main worry is that the greens start pursuing things like pulling the plug on major road infrastructure projects. They have already voiced their opposition to the duelling of the A9 and A96. This is a really bad, stupid move and will not help them build support. We’ll all be driving electric vehicles in the years to come anyway.

[Dawson Park Boy]

You do realise that INEOS at Grangemouth contributes 4% of GDP and 8% of Scotland’s manufacturing base.

If you work in oil and gas, be very afraid.

[Ric]

49 minutes ago, Clown Job said:

 

That's a particularly pernicious tweet. Rentoul knows how the system works, and knows fine well the SNP were restricted (as would any other dominant party) from gaining seats on the List.

The very fact he has to point out that the unionist vote is 'second best' tells its own story. A bit of a self own there, John.

 

[J_Stewart]

25 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

You do realise that INEOS at Grangemouth contributes 4% of GDP and 8% of Scotland’s manufacturing base.

If you work in oil and gas, be very afraid.

I work in Oil & Gas (and Wind-based Renewables), have done for nearly 15 years, and I'm delighted with today's events. We should absolutely now be gradually transitioning from O&G to Renewables

Also, more pertinently, you're a complete fucking moron.

[Dunning1874]

56 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

I know if 98% of the commentariat were asked to justify why they were are supposed to be notable pundits they couldn't but John Rentoul continues to be one of the most baffling. I don't know anything insightful he's ever supposed to have said.

He can tell great stories about pitchfork wielding villagers driving him from his Transylvanian castle in the 1400s tbf.

Anyway, while the nature of this agreement means it's not guaranteed the Greens are going to get the usual skelping junior partners receive at the ballot box, I still have my doubts they're going to get enough out of this to be worth the flak. I suppose the argument is that this guarantees the SNP moving left on a wide range of issues with Green support rather than going right and relying on Tory or Lib Dems votes where it suits them, for example rent controls being included in that document when there's no chance the SNP would have dreamed of supporting that in any previous parliament.

Getting common ground between the right of the SNP and the Greens is going to be difficult enough as it is (I'll believe the likes of Fergus Ewing are going to vote for rent controls when I see it) so maybe they've decided this is the best way to drag the government left, but stuff like Slater's wishy washy answer on Cambo at the press conference sets alarm bells ringing that they're neutering themselves while acting as human shields.

Both parties probably both get something out of it from an independence perspective though in the ability to point to radical policies and say look, this is what co-operation and constructive policies are achieving, think what we could do with more powers. That's a tough balancing act for the SNP not to upset the centre ground too much, but then again they can play the majority card and say that's why these compromises are necessary and both votes SNP all the time in future, etc.

[doulikefish]

Only 20 odd years left of oil according to those in the know in 2014 remember so plans have to be made now 

[the jambo-rocker]

'Chaos' with the Green Party and SNP coalition.

'Stability' with Douglas Ross.

[sophia]

2 hours ago, jamamafegan said:

It’s brilliant for Scotland, and comes at a crucial time given the escalating climate crisis. The SNP need a massive boot up the arse with regards to C02 emissions and ecological restoration. The greens will press them on that. My main worry is that the greens start pursuing things like pulling the plug on major road infrastructure projects. They have already voiced their opposition to the duelling of the A9 and A96. This is a really bad, stupid move and will not help them build support. We’ll all be driving electric vehicles in the years to come anyway.

This is a point I've made before and for the greens to stand on a debating society principle that dualling the A9 is wrong, fails to take account of safety and takes absolutely no account to what travellers to various parishes throughout the highlands should do once they alight in Inverness train station.

That said, there is huge scope for the SNP to be more aggressive and even radical on issues such as land reform. 

 

Edited August 20, 2021 by sophia

[welshbairn]

The SNP just have to sell the idea of renewable electric dual carriaged super green crofters highways to Perth and Aberdeen from Inverness, and the Greens will be cool.

Edited August 20, 2021 by welshbairn

[sparky88]

3 hours ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

You do realise that INEOS at Grangemouth contributes 4% of GDP and 8% of Scotland’s manufacturing base.

If you work in oil and gas, be very afraid.

The Greens will sell out long before they make a principled stance on oil and gas production.

[GordonS]

3 hours ago, jamamafegan said:

They have already voiced their opposition to the duelling of the A9 and A96. This is a really bad, stupid move and will not help them build support. We’ll all be driving electric vehicles in the years to come anyway.

I really hope not. Even if the electricity you put in your electric car was zero carbon it would still produce a quarter of the lifetime emissions of a petrol or diesel car. You still have to build the thing and dispose of it. At present on the UK grid an EV is a third of the lifetime emissions. That's great as part of the solution, but we need to reduce transport emissions by a lot more than 75% or 66%. So we can't all just swap our ICE cars for EVs. They're a solution for rural areas but most of us central belters need to not have personal cars at all.

2 hours ago, sophia said:

This is a point I've made before and for the greens to stand on a debating society principle that dualling the A9 is wrong, fails to take account of safety and takes absolutely no account to what travellers to various parishes throughout the highlands should do once they alight in Inverness train station.

I think it's ridiculous that the A9 gets four lanes for a hundred miles while the rail line still has only one track. Park and ride facilities at all Highland train stations, thru-trains between Wick/Thurso/Kyle of Lochalsh and Glasgow/Edinburgh/Aberdeen (which eliminates transfer time), commuter services linking Inverness to Easter Ross, Speyside and Moray - we could have all of that for the money they're spending on the A9.

Most settlements of any size in the Highlands have a train station.

The safety argument is completely bogus since the average speed cameras went in. Even the business case for the A9 showed that.

As for the A96, the Greens have agreed to by-passes at Nairn, Elgin, Keith and Inverurie (which is weird because it already has one). That's all the A96 needs. I've driven it a lot in the past few years for work, holidays and football and there's no way it should all be dualled. In fact I struggle to think of anything any government in charge of Scotland has ever done that's more nakedly about winning seats.

Public transport can never match the convenience of cars. We've reached the point where that's just tough shit. Are we really saying an extra hour on a journey between the central belt and Sutherland is more important than displacing 2 billion people?

[sophia]

11 minutes ago, GordonS said:

I really hope not. Even if the electricity you put in your electric car was zero carbon it would still produce a quarter of the lifetime emissions of a petrol or diesel car. You still have to build the thing and dispose of it. At present on the UK grid an EV is a third of the lifetime emissions. That's great as part of the solution, but we need to reduce transport emissions by a lot more than 75% or 66%. So we can't all just swap our ICE cars for EVs. They're a solution for rural areas but most of us central belters need to not have personal cars at all.

I think it's ridiculous that the A9 gets four lanes for a hundred miles while the rail line still has only one track. Park and ride facilities at all Highland train stations, thru-trains between Wick/Thurso/Kyle of Lochalsh and Glasgow/Edinburgh/Aberdeen (which eliminates transfer time), commuter services linking Inverness to Easter Ross, Speyside and Moray - we could have all of that for the money they're spending on the A9.

Most settlements of any size in the Highlands have a train station.

The safety argument is completely bogus since the average speed cameras went in. Even the business case for the A9 showed that.

As for the A96, the Greens have agreed to by-passes at Nairn, Elgin, Keith and Inverurie (which is weird because it already has one). That's all the A96 needs. I've driven it a lot in the past few years for work, holidays and football and there's no way it should all be dualled. In fact I struggle to think of anything any government in charge of Scotland has ever done that's more nakedly about winning seats.

Public transport can never match the convenience of cars. We've reached the point where that's just tough shit. Are we really saying an extra hour on a journey between the central belt and Sutherland is more important than displacing 2 billion people?

No they don't, don't be ridiculous?

An "extra hour"? Good luck with getting to Durness on a train.

 

 

[MONKMAN]

11 hours ago, J_Stewart said:

I work in Oil & Gas (and Wind-based Renewables), have done for nearly 15 years, and I'm delighted with today's events. We should absolutely now be gradually transitioning from O&G to Renewables

Also, more pertinently, you're a complete fucking moron.

As someone who also works in oil & gas, I fully agree with everything that’s been said here. 

As for the last sentence, few truer words have ever been spoken on this great forum.