FortescueFotheringhamSmyth Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 There must be something more effective than the UK Border Patrol keeping "Them" out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 That draw yesterday was about as good as it gets from the sponsors/TV companies point of view. Two interesting ties and the other two ties where both Celtic and Rangers probably get through to the semis. Over the years Rangers have seemed pretty lucky in cup draws. It just seems they always end up getting Brechin or Stranraer or the likes at Ibrox in the Scottish Cup. Probably won’t be the case, as I recall them getting Hearts at Tynecastle recently. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted August 16, 2021 Author Share Posted August 16, 2021 OK, I did the same exercise for the preceding 10 years, from League Cup 2001/02 through to Scottish Cup 2010/11. In 44 ties Rangers were drawn at home 17 times, or 39%. Celtic played 48 ties and were drawn at home 21 times, or 44%. If you want to lump the two samples together it makes it 51 home draws in 98 matches for Rangers, for 52%. For Celtic it's 47 home games in 96, for 49%. If there were fixing going on surely they'd be doing considerably better than that over the course of 20 years and nearly 100 matches. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranaldo Bairn Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 Nobody seriously considers the last 20 years or so as being bent in terms of OF draws. What would be interesting would be to look at the numbers from, say, WWII - 1995. Roughly 50 years of data, and it was round about 1995 that draws started getting broadcast live. Maybe a bit earlier I suppose. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted August 16, 2021 Author Share Posted August 16, 2021 14 minutes ago, FortescueFotheringhamSmyth said: OK. I apologise, Gordon. Your initial post was informative, thoughtful and analytical. I was a mite too cynical. But you were aware of precisely where this thread would go. You're wrong about that, because where I expected it to go was that others would take 10 minutes to do the same for their clubs, post it here, and then we'd see Rangers have only been slightly lucky over the past 10 years and nothing out of the ordinary. I'm a wee bit disappointed nobody has done that because I love a juicy bit of raw data. When I started counting I expected to find the whole thing to be a myth and I was surprised Rangers were quite so lucky over that period. My theory was that people take every home or kind draw for the OF as evidence of a fix, but forget all the times it doesn't happen. I wasn't going to not post the numbers once I'd done that work, just in case anyone took it in the direction you thought. Anyway, looking over a longer period their luck evaporates so the idea that either club are favoured in home ties ought to be put to bed. The theory that they get easier draws is one I can't be bothered trying to disprove because it's a lot of work and still open to debate even then. But I might have a go at the idea they avoid each other suspiciously often. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aim Here Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 3 minutes ago, GordonS said: OK, I did the same exercise for the preceding 10 years, from League Cup 2001/02 through to Scottish Cup 2010/11. In 44 ties Rangers were drawn at home 17 times, or 39%. Celtic played 48 ties and were drawn at home 21 times, or 44%. If you want to lump the two samples together it makes it 51 home draws in 98 matches for Rangers, for 52%. For Celtic it's 47 home games in 96, for 49%. If there were fixing going on surely they'd be doing considerably better than that over the course of 20 years and nearly 100 matches. Obviously they only started rigging the draw in the last ten years! Actually, it'd probably be more plausible for the rigging, if any, to have taken place in the mid 20th century rather than nowadays. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FortescueFotheringhamSmyth Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/scottish-cup-celtic-rangers-hot-21327618.amp The Daily Ranger from last year. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted August 16, 2021 Author Share Posted August 16, 2021 22 minutes ago, VictorOnopko said: Fair enough. We'd need to have the home games %s for every club to answer the question in the thread title. I would be willing to bet that Rangers' 63% at home, and run of 9 home matches, are both clear winners though... Which is why I asked for others to post the figures for their club. I would do it for my club but they've only ever played 34 national senior cup ties. I wonder if we were favoured in the Junior Cup... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 It probably feels like they get favourable draws all the time because there’s only a handful of potential outcomes that don’t feel favourable. Let’s be honest in the early rounds most of us want them to draw each other or away to a team that might beat (no, I don’t mean Aberdeen before some smart c**t jumps in). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Empty It Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 Why do you need heated balls when you've got guys like Craigen just looking in and selecting the ball he wanted. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted August 16, 2021 Author Share Posted August 16, 2021 1 minute ago, FortescueFotheringhamSmyth said: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/scottish-cup-celtic-rangers-hot-21327618.amp The Daily Ranger from last year. That's a shit piece of work, as one would expect from them. A sample size of 18 for Hearts is rubbish. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted August 16, 2021 Author Share Posted August 16, 2021 5 minutes ago, Aim Here said: Obviously they only started rigging the draw in the last ten years! Actually, it'd probably be more plausible for the rigging, if any, to have taken place in the mid 20th century rather than nowadays. Oh God, I'm not going to able to resist that. When do we think peak illuminati would be? Maybe 1950s and 1960s? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FortescueFotheringhamSmyth Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 3 minutes ago, GordonS said: I would do it for my club but they've only ever played 34 national senior cup ties. I wonder if we were favoured in the Junior Cup... I'd guess the number of Glesca juniors fans who reckon draws are rigged in favour of Pollok is high 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FortescueFotheringhamSmyth Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 Just now, GordonS said: Oh God, I'm not going to able to resist that. When do we think peak illuminati would be? Maybe 1950s and 1960s? Might have made more sense (£££) to keep Rangers away from Hibs and/or Hearts in those years, as Celtic were often shite. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insert Amusing Pseudonym Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 9 minutes ago, Aim Here said: Obviously they only started rigging the draw in the last ten years! Actually, it'd probably be more plausible for the rigging, if any, to have taken place in the mid 20th century rather than nowadays. On that - I had a look at the numbers on Scottish Cup semis involving both Rangers and Celtic from the first time Celtic entered through to 1992/93 (when they were drawn together, to many raised eyebrows) Basically the figures prior to WW2 were 8 times kept apart to 4 drawn together. Basically exactly what you'd expect probability wise. Post WW2 - Between 1950 and 1993 they were drawn together twice, bookending a quite spectacularly fortunate run of 14 consecutive times they were kept apart. It's fairly likely that there was some chicanery, especially 60s and 70s as the game became more reliant on those 2 to fill Hampden 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 We need a whistleblower.... A man on the inside who knows the tricks..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloPerth Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 If it's conspiracy theories you're after, then step into my office. St Johnstone's league and Scottish Cup draws over the past 10 seasons (including this one) are as follows; Home 13 Away 25. (34% home, 66% away). * Obviously ignoring League Cup group stage, cup replays and the many cup semi finals and finals. Managed to leave out Cup semi finals in 'neutral' Glasgow against OF or in Edinburgh against an Edinburgh team. Also ignored the many European cup ties we've been involved in, which worked out 50-50 anyway funnily enough. Then you look at opening league fixtures each season. Over the past 11 seasons we have had 2 at home and 9 away. (18% home, 82% away). The authorities have tried hard to hold back the rise of St Johnstone, and yet still we are the country's second most successful team over this period. It does make you wonder what would have been possible for us if it was a level playing field. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 Raith Rovers haven’t had a home game on Boxing Day since 1994. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ranaldo Bairn said: Nobody seriously considers the last 20 years or so as being bent in terms of OF draws. What would be interesting would be to look at the numbers from, say, WWII - 1995. Roughly 50 years of data, and it was round about 1995 that draws started getting broadcast live. Maybe a bit earlier I suppose. That's been done for "getting drawn together/apart in SFs". Fairly incredible run from about 1960 to 1990 where they only drew each other 3 times out of almost 50 appearances in Semi-Finals. If you believe the conspiracy theory this came to a halt at about the time draws began to be televised live from late 1980s/early 1990s. 1945-46 VIC TOGETHER 1945-46 GLC TOGETHER 1946-47 GLC APART 1947-48 SCO APART 1947-48 GLA APART 1947-48 GLC APART 1948-49 GLA APART 1948-49 GLC APART 1949-50 GLA TOGETHER 1949-50 GLC APART 1950-51 GLA APART 1951-52 LGE TOGETHER 1952-53 GLC APART 1953-54 SCO APART 1953-54 GLA TOGETHER 1954-55 GLA APART 1954-55 GLC TOGETHER 1955-56 GLA APART 1957-58 LGE APART 1957-58 GLC TOGETHER 1958-59 GLC TOGETHER 1959-60 SCO TOGETHER 1959-60 GLC TOGETHER 1961-62 SCO APART 1961-62 GLA APART 1962-63 SCO APART 1963-64 GLA APART 1964-65 LGE APART 1965-66 LGE APART 1965-66 SCO APART 1966-67 LGE APART 1968-69 SCO APART 1968-69 GLA TOGETHER 1969-70 GLA APART 1970-71 LGE APART 1970-71 SCO APART 1970-71 GLA APART 1971-72 SCO APART 1972-73 DRY APART 1972-73 LGE APART 1972-73 SCO APART 1973-74 DRY APART 1973-74 LGE TOGETHER 1974-75 DRY APART 1974-75 GLA APART 1975-76 LGE APART 1975-76 GLA APART 1976-77 LGE APART 1976-77 SCO APART 1977-78 LGE APART 1978-79 LGE TOGETHER 1978-79 GLA APART 1979-80 DRY APART 1979-80 SCO APART 1979-80 GLA APART 1980-81 SCO APART 1980-81 GLA APART 1981-82 GLA APART 1982-83 LGE APART 1982-83 SCO APART 1982-83 GLA APART 1983-84 LGE APART 1984-85 GLA APART 1985-86 GLA APART 1986-87 LGE APART 1986-87 GLA APART 1987-88 GLA APART 1988-89 SCO APART 1989-90 LGE APART 1990-91 LGE APART 1991-92 SCO TOGETHER 1992-93 LGE APART 1993-94 LGE TOGETHER 1995-96 SCO TOGETHER 1997-98 SCO TOGETHER 1998-99 SCO APART 2000-01 LGE TOGETHER 2001-02 LGE TOGETHER 2001-02 SCO APART 2002-03 LGE APART 2008-09 LGE APART 2010-11 LGE APART 2014-15 LGE TOGETHER 2015-16 SCO TOGETHER 2016-17 LGE TOGETHER 2016-17 SCO TOGETHER 2017-18 LGE APART 2017-18 SCO TOGETHER 2018-19 LGE APART 2019-20 LGE APART Edited August 16, 2021 by HibeeJibee 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted August 16, 2021 Author Share Posted August 16, 2021 1 hour ago, FortescueFotheringhamSmyth said: Might have made more sense (£££) to keep Rangers away from Hibs and/or Hearts in those years, as Celtic were often shite. And Dundee Utd... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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