Afghanistan Crisis

[Guest TheJTS98]

20 minutes ago, TheBruce said:

No one can hold a candle to the Christian west in the genocide we have committed down through the centuries to present day.

That's simply not true.

Western nations in modern-ish times have exploited economic and technological advantages to do it better than others, but it's historical nonsense to state what you have.

We hear all about the misbehaviours of Western powers. The rest of the world has its own evils. Plenty of them.

What's your view of Imperial Japan?

Edited August 24, 2021 by TheJTS98

[Ad Lib]

2 hours ago, superbigal said:

Anyone know if those repatriated from Aghanistan are then being charged a few grand for 10 days in a Travel lodge ?

It is on the red list.

I think (though I could be wrong about this) that the government introduced certain exemptions from the charge after it was legally challenged by others a few months back. I suspect refugees will be more likely to qualify than others.

[Ad Lib]

1 hour ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

3 hours ago, Ad Lib said:

(a) America is currently a superpower.
(b) America still relies on drafting in civilian transport to execute key military operations.
© reliance on civilian transport to support key military operations is not a key indicator of superpower status.
(d) it therefore does not follow, as a matter of basic logic, that the UK's reliance on civilian boats in 1982 is in any meaningful sense indicative of its status in the world at that time, or now
(e) even if one can perfectly reasonably argue, for other reasons, that the UK was no longer a superpower, or is not now.
If the goalposts have been shifted, it's because you left them unassembled in the stand, and Left Back has, very politely, assembled them and placed them on the goal line. You are standing five yards out in the penalty box crying foul after kicking the ball into your own face, off the post and wide, despite everyone holding up big signs at an empty goal with no goalkeeper, saying "shoot here".

f**k me, I've typed up a fire risk assessment, had a brew, face fitted three staff and driven an hour home in the time it took you to produce that irrelevant drivel. Well done.

“I typed up a fire risk assessment”

[Fullerene]

59 minutes ago, TheJTS98 said:

That's simply not true.

Western nations in modern-ish times have exploited economic and technological advantages to do it better than others, but it's historical nonsense to state what you have.

We hear all about the misbehaviours of Western powers. The rest of the world has its own evils. Plenty of them.

What's your view of Imperial Japan?

Don't forget the Khmer Rouge.  In 1975  out of a total population of 8 million, they killed between 1.7 million and 2.5 million.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Fullerene

[Left Back]

31 minutes ago, Ad Lib said:

I think (though I could be wrong about this) that the government introduced certain exemptions from the charge after it was legally challenged by others a few months back. I suspect refugees will be more likely to qualify than others.

Are they actually getting fired into a travelodge?

[Detournement]

5 hours ago, TheJTS98 said:

I don't think anyone with even the most basic understanding of foreign relations would take your position.

Occupation, murder, exploitation, and plunder are not purely Western vices. And they're not especially modern either. All hugely pre-date the existence of either the UK or USA states.

In the post above I've given you off-the-top-of-the-head examples from plenty of regions, yet you're trying to argue there's something unique about the USA and the UK's behaviour. This is very easily shown to be nonsense by a quick reference to China, Russia, Japan, India, Rwanda, Tanzania, and countless others.

You're just in denial here.

I get it. You don't like the UK and US governments. But you're just denying history and current events that anyone with half an interest can easily find out about.

I don't think the examples you have given are comparable to the USA and it's vassals enforcing global hegemony. And examples like Africans causing havoc in Congo are in the context of neocolonialism and western resource extraction.

The reason that there aren't many counter examples is because any attempt to build an alternative system is wrecked in various ways by the USA. Kwame Nkrumah, Patrice Luamba, Thomas Sankara and even Gaddafi all being killed, Sukarno being deposed and Gough Whitlam being removed from office, the recent coups in South America, the invasion of Grenada etc. Even with Corbyn Mike Pompeo publicly said they would not allow him to be PM. These are the most visible reactions of hegemony but it's documented that it runs a lot deeper. A better world is definitely possible but the USA resists it at every opportunity. 

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by Detournement

[Ad Lib]

8 minutes ago, Left Back said:

Are they actually getting fired into a travelodge?

Any arrivals from Afghanistan, including U.K. citizens, will be required to enter one of the quarantine hotels after they clear border control at the airport because it’s a red list country for Covid purposes, unless they are on the list of exemptions. I don’t think many will be exempt from the requirement but some groups will be exempt from the charges.

[vikingTON]

28 minutes ago, Fullerene said:

Don't forget the Khmer Rouge.  In 1975  out of a total population of 8 million, they killed between 1.7 million and 2.5 million.

The Khmer Rouge was made possible by the illegal, massive bombing of their country and overthrow of the government by the US. 

[Left Back]

Just now, Ad Lib said:

Any arrivals from Afghanistan, including U.K. citizens, will be required to enter one of the quarantine hotels after they clear border control at the airport because it’s a red list country for Covid purposes, unless they are on the list of exemptions. I don’t think many will be exempt from the requirement but some groups will be exempt from the charges.

Surely returning soldiers and other officials are exempt as they’re on necessary government business.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

Genghis Khan was a naughty lad levels of whataboutery going on here.

[Fullerene]

What about Chairman Mao?  45 million deaths with his great leap forward.

[Sergeant Wilson]

I'll be glad when the 31st is past and we can forget all this unpleasantness.

[Left Back]

58 minutes ago, TheBruce said:

Internal matter, not colonial or hegemonic.

I’m sure the dead felt a lot better about that.  They were still kind of err, dead though.

Maybe you should look up the definition of hegemonic.  It doesn’t have to refer to nation states.  It’s about exerting power.

What the Taliban are likely about to do is an internal matter and not colonial.  Do you give them a pass as well?

[Left Back]

Sky news reporting that Biden is refusing to extend beyond the 31st.  Due to give a speech imminently.

[Detournement]

1 hour ago, Fullerene said:

What about Chairman Mao?  45 million deaths with his great leap forward.

Not true either. 

[Ad Lib]

1 hour ago, TheBruce said:

Internal matter, not colonial or hegemonic.

Yeah cause it’s not like China is itself a massive empire of Han dominance over other literally tens of other ethnic minority groups concentrated in certain parts of its massive territory that has, throughout its Communist history and even well before it, sought to impose the values of one people on the rest.

[Ad Lib]

15 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Not true either. 

Yes, some estimates put it closer to 55 million.

But still, anything the Han Chinese do is an “internal matter”. Move along Tibet, nothing to see here.

[Ad Lib]

Anyone who calls America imperialists but doesn’t say the same about China doesn’t deserve to be taken seriously.

[Guest TheJTS98]

6 hours ago, Detournement said:

 A better world is definitely possible but the USA resists it at every opportunity. 

 

Yeah, because this one suits the USA fine.

Do you think another country would just give up a dominant position happily?

[Guest TheJTS98]

4 hours ago, TheBruce said:

Sorry mate, but we ARE the world champions of death and destruction.

Again, you're completely missing the point.

The numbers aren't the issue. Being dicks globally is about motivation and opportunity.

If other countries could, they would. You're just criticising The West for being dominant.

It helps to have a good climate, long-term supply of food from excellent farmland, good rivers etc. All these things contributed to Western dominance. It's unbelievably naive to think that anybody else would be happy to just surrender that position. Anybody would fight tooth and nail to keep the power they feel they have. There's nothing special about how the USA or UK behave. They follow all the norms of international behaviour.

Edited August 25, 2021 by TheJTS98