Afghanistan Crisis

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, Tight John McVeigh is a tit said:

I don’t recall, and could probably be wrong, that the Middle Eastern countries asked the US to sort the Kuwait invasion.

The Saudis and Kuwaitis paid more than half the cost, so they must have been pretty keen. 

[Tight minge]

12 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

The Saudis and Kuwaitis paid more than half the cost, so they must have been pretty keen. 

Well the Kuwatis for sure . As said, I only have hazy memories of that time as I had other youthful priorities, just seem to remember a stumbling block of the US led coalition needing to campaign for more ‘local’ support to make it truly realistic and an initial hesitance from Saudi to allow the coalition to position troops there, the final decision being hugely unpopular. 

I vaguely remember the news reporting the what if scenario that the coalition would need to undertake if they didn’t get troops onto Saudi soil or the backing of the other nations, which probably would have been a preferred option for some ‘politicians‘ and outsourcing contractors. 

Trying to stretch my memory back did remind me of something else, which has been touched on by others on this thread.

Latterly, around the time of the Iraq (2) war I was involved around the defence industry. 

The cost of the locally sourced fuel from Kuwait to the troops stationed in Iraq by the outsourced contractors was significantly more than the internal cost of transporting fuel by the US military, even to places like Alaska.

The profiteering and corruption was unbelievable.

 

[SlipperyP]

Watched that DW documentary last night.  It looks like the US don't really care who is in control of Afghanistan as long as it's not the Commies.

These people need our help, not change.   Change will come from them, through our help.

Edited August 21, 2021 by SlipperyP

[Guest TheJTS98]

Update from on the ground in Kabul.

The still-missing woman I referred to in my first post has not been seen or heard from since my previous post (as of last night anyway). But was driven away in a truck with a group of other women, none of them have been heard from since. Their families assume 'married'.

Several other people I either know or have done work with have not been heard from in days. This could be very bad news, or could just mean they are hiding and off-grid. All work in educational settings where they have educated women/are women or in educational settings involving working with Americans, Australians, British etc.

A typical problem is former students grassing in their teachers and lecturers. This seems to be partly settling scores for things in some cases as trivial as grade disputes, and partly just trying to ingratiate themselves with the new authority. Of course, some of those grassing will just genuinely share the Taliban's worldview. As a result, plenty of people have scarpered and could have met trouble or could just be lying low somewhere.

I used to work for the British Council and still have quite a few friends who do. As of last night the position was that they were unable to get any of their Afghan staff out whatsoever. Just a blanket 'naw'. No passage for their Afghan teachers, security guards, admin staff. Nothing. All of these people will be at risk.

It's all very grim.

[Tight minge]

46 minutes ago, TheJTS98 said:

Update from on the ground in Kabul.

The still-missing woman I referred to in my first post has not been seen or heard from since my previous post (as of last night anyway). But was driven away in a truck with a group of other women, none of them have been heard from since. Their families assume 'married'.

Several other people I either know or have done work with have not been heard from in days. This could be very bad news, or could just mean they are hiding and off-grid. All work in educational settings where they have educated women/are women or in educational settings involving working with Americans, Australians, British etc.

A typical problem is former students grassing in their teachers and lecturers. This seems to be partly settling scores for things in some cases as trivial as grade disputes, and partly just trying to ingratiate themselves with the new authority. Of course, some of those grassing will just genuinely share the Taliban's worldview. As a result, plenty of people have scarpered and could have met trouble or could just be lying low somewhere.

I used to work for the British Council and still have quite a few friends who do. As of last night the position was that they were unable to get any of their Afghan staff out whatsoever. Just a blanket 'naw'. No passage for their Afghan teachers, security guards, admin staff. Nothing. All of these people will be at risk.

It's all very grim.

A tragic state of affairs.

Hopefully the people you haven't heard from are avoiding any possible incriminating communication and as you say ‘lying low’.

The reporting of teachers by students isn’t much of a surprise.

Considering it's likely there will be no more intervention, the UK should be doing everything to get everyone associated to them out without compromise.

 

[Fullerene]

4 hours ago, SlipperyP said:

Watched that DW documentary last night.  It looks like the US don't really care who is in control of Afghanistan as long as it's not the Commies.

These people need our help, not change.   Change will come from them, through our help.

Looking at the countries to the north, I know about the weirdness of Turkmenistan with a strange president and former president.  I know Tajikistan had a civil war, is one of the poorest countries in the world and Tajikistan Airlines is banned from Europe.  I know Uzbekistan is extremely corrupt and has a poor human rights record.

Nonetheless, I may be naive but these all look more appealing than Afghanistan.

Of course, if Afghanistan was more like them, it would end up being part of the Soviet sphere, oops, I mean Russian sphere.  Pakistan would never tolerate that and neither would the USA.

Maybe the solution was to emphasise how Afghanistan is less secular and more religious than these other countries.  Unfortunately that solution has resulted in the hellhole that we see now.

[Zetterlund]

It'll be interesting to see what happens with Afghanistan's famous poppy trade now that the baddies are back in power. Will they repeat their policy of 2001 and ban it outright, essentially almost stopping production overnight? The local warlords whose operations were protected by the US, ostensibly to protect the incomes of working Afghans (insert 'was it aye?' dog meme), would not be happy reverting to goat herding I suspect.

Will production continue as part of a backroom deal with the occupying forces to keep it going in return for a bloodless transition of power?

On a related note, when talking about the direct and indirect civilian casualties resulting from the last 20 years of conflict, how many lives have been lost due to the expansion of opium production and export? Afghanistan itself, and Pakistan and Iran in particular have been ravaged by it, not to mention countries further afield including the US.

[Jacksgranda]

1 hour ago, Tight John McVeigh is a tit said:

A tragic state of affairs.

Hopefully the people you haven't heard from are avoiding any possible incriminating communication and as you say ‘lying low’.

The reporting of teachers by students isn’t much of a surprise.

Considering it's likely there will be no more intervention, the UK should be doing everything to get everyone associated to them out without compromise.

 

That won't happen, and this will gradually fade from the news.

Reprehensible conduct by us.

[btb]

13 hours ago, Fullerene said:

You mention the time when Iraq invaded Kuwait.  It would have been nice if the countries of the Middle East sorted that out by themselves.  After all, we must have sold them enough weapons to get the job done.  Instead they asked the United States (and others) to get it sorted.

Similarly, Bosnia.  Surely the Europeans should have sorted that out, yet the Americans were criticised for wanting to sit that one out.  Yes, America interferes a lot in the affairs of other countries but it also gets blamed for not interfering.

It would be great if we left the Middle East alone.  Unfortunately we have a serious addiction to oil and like all addictions it clouds our judgement.  We despise the brutality of the Taliban but not the brutality of Saudi Arabia.  Easy answer to that one.

That was actually US policy wrt Iraq at the time, to turn a blind eye to them bullying Kuwait into land/oil concessions to help refund Iraq after their war with Iran. It was only after the invasion of Kuwait that the US began to worry about Saudi Arabia being next! 

Quote

On 25 July 1990, April Glaspie, the U.S. ambassador to Iraq, asked the Iraqi high command to explain the military preparations in progress, including the massing of Iraqi troops near the border.^[33]

The American ambassador declared to her Iraqi interlocutor that Washington, "inspired by the friendship and not by confrontation, does not have an opinion" on the disagreement between Kuwait and Iraq, stating "we have no opinion on the Arab–Arab conflicts".^[33]

Glaspie also indicated to Saddam Hussein that the United States did not intend "to start an economic war against Iraq". These statements may have caused Saddam to believe he had received a diplomatic green light from the United States to invade Kuwait

 

It's not ancient history, I remember it being discussed quite clearly at the time...

Edited August 21, 2021 by btb

[101]

2 hours ago, TheJTS98 said:

I used to work for the British Council and still have quite a few friends who do. As of last night the position was that they were unable to get any of their Afghan staff out whatsoever. Just a blanket 'naw'. No passage for their Afghan teachers, security guards, admin staff. Nothing. All of these people will be at risk.

It's all very grim

Could you not write to your MP with specific names to make their case for them?

Apologies if you already have done, it truly is a grim situation and can't see any locals willing to help if we ever have to go back.

Edited August 21, 2021 by 101

[Tight minge]

14 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

That won't happen, and this will gradually fade from the news.

Reprehensible conduct by us.

Unfortunately, I completely agree with you. It’s what should happen but won’t.

[Jacksgranda]

3 minutes ago, Tight John McVeigh is a tit said:

Unfortunately, I completely agree with you. It’s what should happen but won’t.

There will be plenty of chat and hand wringing public pronouncements but very little action.

[SlipperyP]

1 hour ago, Fullerene said:

Looking at the countries to the north, I know about the weirdness of Turkmenistan with a strange president and former president.  I know Tajikistan had a civil war, is one of the poorest countries in the world and Tajikistan Airlines is banned from Europe.  I know Uzbekistan is extremely corrupt and has a poor human rights record.

Nonetheless, I may be naive but these all look more appealing than Afghanistan.

Of course, if Afghanistan was more like them, it would end up being part of the Soviet sphere, oops, I mean Russian sphere.  Pakistan would never tolerate that and neither would the USA.

Maybe the solution was to emphasise how Afghanistan is less secular and more religious than these other countries.  Unfortunately that solution has resulted in the hellhole that we see now.

KIlling people no mater what colour.  It's like going to Kirkcaldy without lights?

If you watch you get killed..... 

[Guest TheJTS98]

20 minutes ago, 101 said:

Could you not write to your MP with specific names to make their case for them?

Apologies if you already have done, it truly is a grim situation and can't see any locals willing to help if we ever have to go back.

I and others have done so.

It's hard to really know where to turn here. I've written to my MP as well as directly to the British Council and to universities connected to the ones in Kabul that I worked with. No reply of any substance yet.

I see the British Council case has been mentioned in a couple of newspapers now. These folk were trained and hired and encouraged to make the most of these kinds of opportunities. And now having done so puts them in great danger, yet the UK government is basically just washing its hands of the situation.

 

[welshbairn]

21 minutes ago, 101 said:

Could you not write to your MP with specific names to make their case for them?

Apologies if you already have done, it truly is a grim situation and can't see any locals willing to help if we ever have to go back.

Dangerous move, if the MP passed their names on Boris would probably read them out in Parliament saying they were only teaching decent British values.

[101]

Just now, TheJTS98 said:

I and others have done so.

It's hard to really know where to turn here. I've written to my MP as well as directly to the British Council and to universities connected to the ones in Kabul that I worked with. No reply of any substance yet.

I see the British Council case has been mentioned in a couple of newspapers now. These folk were trained and hired and encouraged to make the most of these kinds of opportunities. And now having done so puts them in great danger, yet the UK government is basically just washing its hands of the situation.

 

Glad to hear it's making traction in the press, sadly that's often the only way to get things done.

Like you say we have put a lot of these people at risk normally someone in the government would fall on their sword and get some new folk in and get everyone out but sadly the bunch of c***s we have in Whitehall at the moment are beyond acting in their own interest or the interest of their pals bank balance.

[SlipperyP]

19 minutes ago, TheJTS98 said:

I and others have done so.

It's hard to really know where to turn here. I've written to my MP as well as directly to the British Council and to universities connected to the ones in Kabul that I worked with. No reply of any substance yet.

I see the British Council case has been mentioned in a couple of newspapers now. These folk were trained and hired and encouraged to make the most of these kinds of opportunities. And now having done so puts them in great danger, yet the UK government is basically just washing its hands of the situation.

 

ffs 

[Tight minge]

https://www.change.org/p/save-british-council-educators-from-the-taliban

Worth taking a few minutes of your Saturday morning?

[welshbairn]

16 minutes ago, Tight John McVeigh is a tit said:

https://www.change.org/p/save-british-council-educators-from-the-taliban

Worth taking a few minutes of your Saturday morning?

Signed, but be aware that donations go to Change.org as a profit making company to do with as they like, not necessarily to promote the issue and definitely not to directly help in any way. If you want to donate there are charities that will make better use of your money.

https://medium.com/@blmopenletter/change-org-donate-to-blacklivesmatter-81273c5520ad

[Tight minge]

Just now, welshbairn said:

Signed, but be aware that donations go to Change.org as a profit making company to do with as they like, not necessarily to promote the issue and definitely not to directly help in any way. If you want to donate there are charities that will make better use of your money.

https://medium.com/@blmopenletter/change-org-donate-to-blacklivesmatter-81273c5520ad

Yes there is a parliamentary petition which would be a better forum maybe, but this was running and over 100k signatures.

Frankly making donations isn’t going to do anything just now as time is not a friend for these people. 

If at least its something carrying a hefty amount of signatures that is a reference point it's the best that anyone can do for now. 

Other than call the government the c***s of the day. 

Maybe make you feel a little better about yourself before heading to the football.