welshbairn Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said: They also managed to bomb the Chinese embassy in Belgrade and a passenger train along the way. The problem was that Milosevic didn't give in as easily as anticipated in terms of responding rationally to a display of overwhelming military might (had they ever spent any time around Yugoslavs of a certain vintage?), so they had to keep widening the list of targets well beyond what could justifiably be described as military in nature to keep the whole thing going until he finally capitulated. To people following the western media narrative it all seemed justifiable enough, but a lot of the world still views it in the same sort of category as Russian interventions in Abkhazia, South Ossetia and Crimea in terms of legality and still refuse to recognise Kosovo. The Chinese Embassy bombing was very murky, 5 missiles and the only target in the war specifically chosen by the CIA, according to Director George Tenet. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Detournement said: The worst case scenario is Saudi Arabia and no one loses any sleep about that. Plenty of people do. But of course the critical difference is we didn't go into Riyadh, occupy, and create the conditions in which millions of Saudi women were able to live a fundamentally different life than the oppressive one they had been living under, and would be forced to live under in the event of a decades-premature withdrawal of international forces. 17 minutes ago, Detournement said: The idea that the occupation is benign and the violent acts committed by NATO forces aren't deliberate doesn't withstand the slightest scrutiny. It's just as well no one is saying they were "benign" or "not deliberate" then, isn't it. I've not seen straw men this blatant since xbl was a poster on this site. 17 minutes ago, Detournement said: Gina Haspel was in charge of torture in Afghanistan under Bush and is now head of the CIA. Daniel Hale was just recently jailed for exposing the true number of civilians killed by drone strikes. David McBride is up on trial later this year for exposing massive numbers of war crimes by Australian SAS. The British Government just made all British soldiers legally immune from any war crimes committed abroad. The USA has sanctioned the ICC investigators who are looking into Afghanistan. Racist violence is absolutely essential to the occupation. None of this was "essential to the occupation". You're talking utter shite. 17 minutes ago, GordonS said: It's not quite the same because you're saying you would do it if it were a criminal offence with serious penalties not to do it. If you were in your early 20s, in good physical shape and without the same career opportunities that you've had, would fighting in Afghanistan have been something you may have volunteered to do? In those circumstances yes, I would have given it serious consideration. I briefly considered joining the armed forces while at University. Edit to add: indeed a good friend of mine is an army officer only a couple of months back after a six month or so stint out in Afghanistan. The idea that centre-left middle class types don't step up to the plate if required is for the birds. 17 minutes ago, GordonS said: There's an unwritten pact between the government and the armed forces that they won't be thrown into harm's way without a strong justification. They sign up for Queen and country, not girls' education in Helmand. There's an extent to which Western countries send armies into humanitarian wars because they have standing armies anyway and, as they can do something good with them, they feel like they should. But I'm far from convinced that's how the soldiers see it. I'm afraid that "unwritten pact" just doesn't exist. The armed forces are a tool of the state, to be deployed however the state wants to deploy them, subject only to there being proper due process and prosecution for war crimes. That is what you sign up for, not some misty-eyed PROTECT THE QUEEN. Like I said before, whatever the soldiers' own reasons are for enlisting, absolutely none of them under the age of 48 (i.e. almost all of those who are still in combat roles) can have done so under anything other than the understanding that some of their operations would be non-defensive and would involve, where necessary, prolonged periods of occupation in inhospitable environments with protection of certain civilian groups being part of their strategic objectives. 15 minutes ago, GordonS said: Do you trust your judgement? Of course not. Are you mad? Edited August 17, 2021 by Ad Lib 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 100 year occupation or 1000 year Reich? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Have some faith in Magic Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 14 minutes ago, Miguel Sanchez said: Taliban press conference now. A man with very full eyebrows taking questions from American news. It's all very surreal. There are some very brave journalists asking questions. You can tell they are shiting themselves. Braver than any of our politicians or journalists with their mealy mouthed pish. You just know that Kunesburg and Peston would be down the Jim Whyte line of questioning to Brian Laudrop by now. Mullah, why are you so good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Again if you think it is acceptable for Afghans to live under these conditions but wouldn't accept it for yourself or your family then you are a big old racist. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, Have some faith in Magic said: There are some very brave journalists asking questions. You can tell they are shiting themselves. Braver than any of our politicians or journalists with their mealy mouthed pish. You just know that Kunesburg and Peston would be down the Jim Whyte line of questioning to Brian Laudrop by now. Mullah, why are you so good. What channel are you watching it on? Aljazeera aren't translating the questions and their feed just dropped. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left Back Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Just now, welshbairn said: What channel are you watching it on? Aljazeera aren't translating the questions and their feed just dropped. BBC News have a translator. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venti Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Every fucking BBC News main homepage = 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lofarl Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 If this Taliban spokesman is anything to go by. There’ll be a centre parcs resort there by next year. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 5 minutes ago, Detournement said: Again if you think it is acceptable for Afghans to live under these conditions but wouldn't accept it for yourself or your family then you are a big old racist. Clearly it is not acceptable for Afghan civilians and prisoners of war to be brutally mistreated by anyone. Since absolutely no one on this thread has even remotely suggested that is an acceptable state of affairs, I'm not sure what you think you're proving. What we do know is that the Taliban brutally mistreats civilians and prisoners of war in orders of magnitude higher numbers and in even more brutal ways, and routinely, than the NATO forces that have at various points been stationed in Afghanistan. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Just hearing that 5 of the Taliban negotiating committee were held at Guantanamo. Must have been quite the learning experience. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 How do you know that? Since the number of Afghans tortured by occupation forces and the true number killed are still classified it's impossible to compare. You are basically taking the position that the Afghanis left to their own devices are incapable of building a functioning society and colonial brutality is justified because they are essentially savages. It's the exact justification that was used to legitimise GB forcing it's will upon India, Kenya, Egypt etc. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 39 minutes ago, GordonS said: Do you trust your judgement? He ran as a candidate for the Lib Dems, of course he doesn't. 33 minutes ago, Left Back said: Women are free within the limits of Sharia law and can be educated and work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 Just potentially raped, tortured and killed in the black site on Bagram Airbase. Presenting the occupation as neutral is denial of the horrific crimes committed by the occupiers. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-54996581 This is what you are demanding 100 years of because you have completely swallowed the racist logic of capitalism to advance your career. Whilst Ad Lib Vs Left Back has been entertaining, let us all marvel at the state of this fucking lunatic [emoji23] 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 This thread's gone a bit Coronavirus in the last couple of pages More a warm glow of nostalgia seeing H_B being owned by Libby. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 23 minutes ago, Detournement said: How do you know that? Since the number of Afghans tortured by occupation forces and the true number killed are still classified it's impossible to compare. If you honestly think that NATO forces have tortured more people than the Taliban in Afghanistan or that they’ve killed even close to as many civilians on the basis that “it’s classified” you are beyond help. 23 minutes ago, Detournement said: You are basically taking the position that the Afghanis left to their own devices are incapable of building a functioning society and colonial brutality is justified because they are essentially savages. It's the exact justification that was used to legitimise GB forcing it's will upon India, Kenya, Egypt etc. Nonsense. They are incapable because the Taliban has too much military and civic influence on their society and the Taliban are theocratic savages. The presence of NATO forces is not in itself “colonial brutality”. It is, on the contrary, the only guarantee they have against brutal theocratic oppression. This is not like India or Egypt. We aren’t in Afghanistan to plunder its non-existent natural resources. We aren’t there to exploit cheap Labour to prop up an empire. Our presence there comes at great but justifiable cost to our own Exchequer. And our presence, on the whole, was a guarantor not of some great woke third wave feminist utopia, but of really fucking basic expectations about how women, on the whole, should be treated in the bits of their society not controlled by the Taliban. That you would give precedence to the wishes of godbothering patriarchs who treat women as chattels is very revealing and suggests people probably shouldn’t listen to you on questions of morality in this country either. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 49 minutes ago, Lofarl said: If this Taliban spokesman is anything to go by. There’ll be a centre parcs resort there by next year. If people think they are a bunch of goat herding mountain dwellers then this is the wake up as there pr is second to none so far.The carefully released videos of them on the bumper cars etc has been top work by them 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, doulikefish said: If people think they are a bunch of goat herding mountain dwellers then this is the wake up as there pr is second to none so far.The carefully released videos of them on the bumper cars etc has been top work by them ISIS raised the game on the production values front across the board. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 I would have been quite happy if this tube had been left behind. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-58244518 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted August 17, 2021 Share Posted August 17, 2021 15 minutes ago, Ad Lib said: This is not like India or Egypt. We aren’t in Afghanistan to plunder its non-existent natural resources. The *abundant* mineral resources of Afghanistan are precisely why the Chinese & the Russians are positioning themselves as they are… 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.