Promotion push 2021-22

[stulch]

So my understanding is that the two new B team's results aren't included when calculating who is put forward for the promotion play-offs. So where the **** do you find the all important Lowland League table, the one that matters...? The one without the teams who shouldn't be there...? A non-B-team in theory could be twelve points clear at the top of the table but not be the team that enters the play-off! All because they had a perfect record against the B teams compared to another that lost every game against them!

[Gimme]

All results count, and the B teams can still finish top and bottom its just that they cannot be promoted or relegated. The theory is that if a B team finishes top it'll be the best placed non B team that is put forward for the play off.

I would imagine that scenario is likely to be challenged by team 42 so let's see how it plays out.

[stulch]

All results count, and the B teams can still finish top and bottom its just that they cannot be promoted or relegated. The theory is that if a B team finishes top it'll be the best placed non B team that is put forward for the play off.

I would imagine that scenario is likely to be challenged by team 42 so let's see how it plays out.

Have the Lowland League 100% confirmed this? When it was originally announced I thought B team results not counting was the understanding? Although I've read most of the other threads I haven't read the countless B team threads as even I couldn't keep up with all those posts! [emoji23]

[Andy groundhopper]

We've had the PPG and whether leagues could actually be completed, I can see the B team/tables/promotion saga being discussed throughout the season.Best non B team put forward ? Imagine both Colts being 20 points ahead of the 3rd team, is the next best non B team an actual ruling ? Try to keep up with things, sometimes beyond me !

[stulch]

As I've said elsewhere the Lowland League, which for many was the first visible symbol of a pyramid in football, and hence an example of how to get promoted through the leagues and into the SPFL, is rapidly becoming a joke now.

[FairWeatherFan]

18 minutes ago, stulch said:

Have the Lowland League 100% confirmed this? When it was originally announced I thought B team results not counting was the understanding? Although I've read most of the other threads I haven't read the countless B team threads as even I couldn't keep up with all those posts!

George Fraser said it on a podcast appearance. Potentially in other interviews. 

If the B team games didn't count they would be meaningless friendlies was their point. 

[jamamafegan]

You can bet your bottom dollar that if any of the B teams finish top there will quickly be calls from the usual suspects to allow them to enter the play-off.

[FairWeatherFan]

4 minutes ago, jamamafegan said:

You can bet your bottom dollar that if any of the B teams finish too there will quickly be calls from the usual suspects to allow them to enter the play-off.

That's guaranteed.

[selfassemblyshire]

All results count, and the B teams can still finish top and bottom its just that they cannot be promoted or relegated. The theory is that if a B team finishes top it'll be the best placed non B team that is put forward for the play off.

I would imagine that scenario is likely to be challenged by team 42 so let's see how it plays out.

This ia going to happen as Rangers B will win the league

[RossBFaeDundee]

11 hours ago, Gimme said:

All results count, and the B teams can still finish top and bottom its just that they cannot be promoted or relegated. The theory is that if a B team finishes top it'll be the best placed non B team that is put forward for the play off.

I would imagine that scenario is likely to be challenged by team 42 so let's see how it plays out.

Would back team 42 in a heartbeat on that issue, if the LL teams can't beat the kids they voted into the league in exchange for a bribe to the league title, none of them deserve to even sniff League Two.

If an OF colt team wins this league, team 42 should just have to play the HL champions.

[GordonS]

4 hours ago, RossBFaeDundee said:

Would back team 42 in a heartbeat on that issue, if the LL teams can't beat the kids they voted into the league in exchange for a bribe to the league title, none of them deserve to even sniff League Two.

If an OF colt team wins this league, team 42 should just have to play the HL champions.

I hadn't realised the LL had agreed to this. I already thought the clubs that voted for this were a shower of shits, but it's so much worse.

If the SoS, WoS or EoS leagues are won by teams that aren't eligible for promotion, because they're not licensed or they're a reserve side like Stirling Uni EOS, that league doesn't get to put anyone forward for the LL promotion place. This has happened several times and almost happened to Bonnyrigg when the SFA shifted the goalposts on floodlights. The LL's rules don't allow the leagues below them to work their way down their tables to find the first eligible club.

It would be rank hypocrisy for the LL to expect a team that finishes third to be allowed into the SPFL promotion play-offs. They allowed two clubs to buy their way into their league, skipping the tiers below them, and they have to live with the consequences of that.

[ski64]

I didn't realise that about the leagues below the Lowland regarding licensing.

Totally agree then that if colts win leagues then no one should be put forward for play off.

The rules need be applied consistently across all tiers of what is supposedly one pyramid.

I hadn't realised the LL had agreed to this. I already thought the clubs that voted for this were a shower of shits, but it's so much worse.
If the SoS, WoS or EoS leagues are won by teams that aren't eligible for promotion, because they're not licensed or they're a reserve side like Stirling Uni EOS, that league doesn't get to put anyone forward for the LL promotion place. This has happened several times and almost happened to Bonnyrigg when the SFA shifted the goalposts on floodlights. The LL's rules don't allow the leagues below them to work their way down their tables to find the first eligible club.
It would be rank hypocrisy for the LL to expect a team that finishes third to be allowed into the SPFL promotion play-offs. They allowed two clubs to buy their way into their league, skipping the tiers below them, and they have to live with the consequences of that.

[Deanburn Dave]

Old Firm colts are full time professional footballers. Get a grip.

[LongTimeLurker]

9 hours ago, RossBFaeDundee said:

Would back team 42 in a heartbeat on that issue, ....

The LL will almost certainly get away with it though as there is nothing in the Club 42 playoff rule that states clearly that the league champion has to have been the top placed team over a full 34 game season. The role of the SPFL, as was the case with Kelty Hearts and Brora Rangers last season, is only to determine if the clubs that have been put forward as champions by the LL and HL meet their league membership requirements.

[GordonS]

2 hours ago, Deanburn Dave said:

Old Firm colts are full time professional footballers. Get a grip.

I genuinely don't know what point you're making.

[John S]

Responding to RossB talking about 'kids'

I genuinely don't know what point you're making.

[stulch]

The LL will almost certainly get away with it though as there is nothing in the Club 42 playoff rule that states clearly that the league champion has to have been the top placed team over a full 34 game season. The role of the SPFL, as was the case with Kelty Hearts and Brora Rangers last season, is only to determine if the clubs that have been put forward as champions by the LL and HL meet their league membership requirements.

Such a rocky road the Lowland League are going down. Say if Rangers B top the table at the end of the season, with Celtic B second and Bonnyrigg Rose third. Surely they'll give the trophy to Rangers B and not Bonnyrigg Rose. Then they'll try and convince League Two clubs Bonnyrigg Rose are their champion club...? A rocky road...

[LongTimeLurker]

They don't have to convince League Two clubs of anything for the playoff to happen.

As Ken Ferguson and Brechin City found out a few months back when lots of barroom lawyer types on here were convinced the playoff wouldn't happen all that ultimately matters is what is actually stated in the rulebook not what people think is right or wrong based on notions of fair play or common sense. It simply didn't matter that neither Kelty nor Brora had even been able to complete half their season because there was nothing in the rules that required that to have happened for a champion to be declared by the HL and LL.

Rightly or wrongly Bonnyrigg Rose would be the LL champions under the scenario outlined according to the LL constitution that is in place so all that's open to the SPFL at that point under the Club 42 rule is to determine whether Bonyrigg Rose (or whoever, hopefully Bo'ness United despite the slow start) meet SPFL membership requirements. Somebody might decide to waste their money again by trying to launch a legal challenge  but the outcome would almost certainly be the same this time around as well.

[FairWeatherFan]

23 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

They don't have to convince League Two clubs of anything for the playoff to happen.

As Ken Ferguson and Brechin City found out a few months back when lots of barroom lawyer types on here were convinced the playoff wouldn't happen all that ultimately matters is what is actually stated in the rulebook not what people think is right or wrong based on notions of fair play or common sense. It simply didn't matter that neither Kelty nor Brora had even been able to complete half their season because there was nothing in the rules that required that to have happened for a champion to be declared by the HL and LL.

Rightly or wrongly Bonnyrigg Rose would be the LL champions under the scenario outlined according to the LL constitution that is in place so all that's open to the SPFL at that point under the Club 42 rule is to determine whether Bonyrigg Rose (or whoever, hopefully Bo'ness United despite the slow start) meet SPFL membership requirements. Somebody might decide to waste their money again by trying to launch a legal challenge  but the outcome would almost certainly be the same this time around as well.

Except the HL and LL didn't declare champions. They used PPG to decide them on sporting merit, and were told by the SFA they simply couldn't choose a champion.

Which is exactly what they would be doing if a 'B' team finishes in 1st place and all the results stand.

There's now two curtailed seasons worth of emails back and forth between the SFA and leagues, as well as a judge's summmary on how a league champion can be declared to be picked through.

[LongTimeLurker]

^^^In reality what the SFA actually told them was that they couldn't choose a champion after null and voiding a season which is what George Fraser and co in their infinite wisdom were about to try and do in an LL context. There had to be an actual season to base it upon as there will have been when the outcome of the 2021-22 season is determined. Basing the identity of the champion on a rule voted through at the 2021 LL AGM is on more solid ground than PPG was.

Edited August 9, 2021 by LongTimeLurker