Amazon’s Tolkien Adaptation - Coming 2nd September 2022 Discussion

[Thorongil]

27 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

7 hours ago, Thorongil said:

Well, as much as I love Game of Thrones, I don’t want it to have the same tone. There could well be a place for the violence and debauchery in Numenor and with the killing of Celebrimbor. 
 
There will be a need to flesh out some of it and create characters. I don’t want to see, for example, transgender elves or bi curious Balrogs. In the recent cultural climate these things are a fear when movie and film creators take artistic licence too far, such as with the Hobbit movies. The creation of Tauriel simply to have a love triangle involving a dwarf is just wholly inconsistent with the entire legendarium. 
 
 

Flesh out is an understatement - The Silmarillion is more creation myth than story, in that it lacks complete characters.

I would have to strongly disagree. Only the opening sections of the book, Ainulindalie and Valaquenta are creation myth. Quenta Silmarillion itself is full of complete characters as is the Akallabeth and Of the Rings of Power, with plenty more to be found in Unfinished Tales, Children of Hurin and The History of Middle Earth (12 volumes).

notable characters springing to mind in the wider narrative:

Finwe, Feanor, Galadriel, Beren, Luthien, Melkor, Sauron, Maedhros, Celebrimbor, Finrod, Melian, Thingol, Ungoliant, Aule, Mandos, Thingol, Hurin, Turin, Turgon, Araedhel, Eol, Maeglin, Finduilas, Fingon, Gil-galad, Glaurung, Voronwe, Ulmo, Tuor, Glorfindel, Ecthelion, Earendil, Elros and the line of Kings of Numenor charted in detail, Queen Beruthiel, Dragluin, Cirion, Eorl, Carcaroth, Thorondor, Gwindor, Niennor, Yavanna, Manwe, Tulkas, Illuvatar. I could probably go on.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Thorongil

[Thorongil]

36 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

I wonder how much it will be adapted because most Tolkien experts reckon it is unfilmable.
 

The reckon The Silmarillion is unfilmable yes, but that’s not what this series is doing. It’s focusing on the second age, much of which is from the LOTR appendices, Unfinished Tales and two particular sections of The Silmarillion which aren’t part of the Quenta Silmarillion story.

It’s really mostly these bits.

The pic we see from Amazon in the last few days indicates flashback/prologue sequences.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Thorongil

[Thorongil]

7 hours ago, Iain said:

Is the sexuality of Balrogs discussed in the Silmarillion? It's been a long time since I read it, but I don't recall.

It is not.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I would have to strongly disagree. Only the opening sections of the book, Ainulindalie and Valaquenta are creation myth. Quenta Silmarillion itself is full of complete characters as is the Akallabeth and Of the Rings of Power, with plenty more to be found in Unfinished Tales, Children of Hurin and The History of Middle Earth (12 volumes).
notable characters springing to mind in the wider narrative:
Finwe, Feanor, Galadriel, Beren, Luthien, Melkor, Sauron, Maedhros, Celebrimbor, Finrod, Melian, Thingol, Ungoliant, Aule, Mandos, Thingol, Hurin, Turin, Turgon, Araedhel, Eol, Maeglin, Finduilas, Fingon, Gil-galad, Glaurung, Voronwe, Ulmo, Tuor, Glorfindel, Ecthelion, Earendil, Elros and the line of Kings of Numenor charted in detail, Queen Beruthiel, Dragluin, Cirion, Eorl, Carcaroth, Thorondor, Gwindor, Niennor, Yavanna, Manwe, Tulkas, Illuvatar. I could probably go on.

They are characters but there is not much depth to them is the point.

[Thorongil]

4 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

20 minutes ago, Thorongil said:

I would have to strongly disagree. Only the opening sections of the book, Ainulindalie and Valaquenta are creation myth. Quenta Silmarillion itself is full of complete characters as is the Akallabeth and Of the Rings of Power, with plenty more to be found in Unfinished Tales, Children of Hurin and The History of Middle Earth (12 volumes).
notable characters springing to mind in the wider narrative:
Finwe, Feanor, Galadriel, Beren, Luthien, Melkor, Sauron, Maedhros, Celebrimbor, Finrod, Melian, Thingol, Ungoliant, Aule, Mandos, Thingol, Hurin, Turin, Turgon, Araedhel, Eol, Maeglin, Finduilas, Fingon, Gil-galad, Glaurung, Voronwe, Ulmo, Tuor, Glorfindel, Ecthelion, Earendil, Elros and the line of Kings of Numenor charted in detail, Queen Beruthiel, Dragluin, Cirion, Eorl, Carcaroth, Thorondor, Gwindor, Niennor, Yavanna, Manwe, Tulkas, Illuvatar. I could probably go on.

They are characters but there is not much depth to them is the point.

I think that’s a common trope but it’s just not true. There’s a huge amount of depth to many of them, especially the players in the 3 great tales. Beren & Luthien, the Fall of Gondolin and the Children of Hurin. 
Feanor is one of the greatest characters ever written and we get chapter and verse in what makes Galadriel tick. Finrod literally has a huge debate with a mortal woman about human nature and the meaning of life and death. 
We see the rise and fall of so many, the motivations of the Numenoreans, the scheming and machinations of Morgoth explained in intricate detail, the drivers of the characters behind treason in Gondolin, the tragic folly of Turin, the impact of the Oath on the sons of Feanor, etc etc etc.

[Iain]

10 hours ago, Thorongil said:

It is not.

Could reasonably be anything then.

[sfha]

I'm looking forward to this, I first read The Silmarillion about 40 years ago and loved it. Some may find it a bit dry but is as stated above firstly a creation myth and the middle chapters concerning the War of the Silmarils are more fleshed out in Unfinished Tales and later books.  The tales of march of the Elves from the West to reclaim the  Silmarils, the wars with Morgoth, the Fall of the hidden city of Gondolin, the Battle of Unnumbered Tears. Epic stuff.

[saint dave]

On 05/08/2021 at 11:37, Iain said:

Is the sexuality of Balrogs discussed in the Silmarillion? It's been a long time since I read it, but I don't recall.

It does say he was flaming....

[saint dave]

The Children of Húrin could pretty much fill out a series , as could the tale of Beren and Luthien.

[Thorongil]

On 06/08/2021 at 19:34, sfha said:

I'm looking forward to this, I first read The Silmarillion about 40 years ago and loved it. Some may find it a bit dry but is as stated above firstly a creation myth and the middle chapters concerning the War of the Silmarils are more fleshed out in Unfinished Tales and later books.  The tales of march of the Elves from the West to reclaim the  Silmarils, the wars with Morgoth, the Fall of the hidden city of Gondolin, the Battle of Unnumbered Tears. Epic stuff.

So so much in there. Fingon saving Maedhros from his torture on Thangorodrim and reuniting the Noldor always gets me. And possibly even more so Finrod breaking his chains to save Beren on the Isle or Werewolves. 
 

And the entire Earendil story is a thing of enduring perfect beauty.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

Only watching this if it has the gay Balrogs tbh.

I read the silmarillion ages ago. A bit too heavy for a younger Frank. Might try it again if my parents haven't cast the book into the fire and destroyed it.

Those shots of the series look good though and I'm not a complete Tolkien nerd, so any artistic licence won't bother me. I'll be happy if it looks good, makes sense and provides some decent memes and gifs.

[FairWeatherFan]

They're moving production from New Zealand to the UK for season 2. No one having seen anything yet it's hard to tell what to make of the move. For LOTR New Zealand's landscapes were key, for the Hobbit not so much.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

Big battles and tasteful nudity you say ?

[kiddy]

"Second age of middle earth" you say?
So it's 'the' Lord of the Rings!

[Thorongil]

This one has caught fire in the last week or so. Some intriguing teaser images and yesterday Vanity Fair releasing the first actual filmed images. 

Lots to be excited about and some initial concerns. 

Trailer is due at the Super Bowl on Sunday.

Edited February 11, 2022 by Thorongil

[mishtergrolsch]

On 11/02/2022 at 12:37, Thorongil said:

This one has caught fire in the last week or so. Some intriguing teaser images and yesterday Vanity Fair releasing the first actual filmed images. 

Lots to be excited about and some initial concerns. 

Trailer is due at the Super Bowl on Sunday.

I'm worried and excited about this series.

Worried after what happened to The Hobbit, stretching out what would have been a fine stand alone single film, adding in non existing characters and squeezing in ones who were nowhere near the story.

Also rumours of Tom Shippey leaving and the other problems behind the scenes gets alarm bells going. I dont know how much care is given to the Tolkien estate now Christopher Tolkien is gone now too.

But theyve chucked shit tons of dosh at it and the images look impressive.

I just really hope its not Game of the Rings of Middle Earthen Thrones - the whole concept of GOT was for George RR Martin to be the anti Tolkien.

No Hobbits pumping Elves and bi curious Dwarves in drag. Not in anything derived from Tolkiens work anyway.

[Theroadlesstravelled]

[Thorongil]

4 hours ago, mishtergrolsch said:

I'm worried and excited about this series.

Worried after what happened to The Hobbit, stretching out what would have been a fine stand alone single film, adding in non existing characters and squeezing in ones who were nowhere near the story.

Also rumours of Tom Shippey leaving and the other problems behind the scenes gets alarm bells going. I dont know how much care is given to the Tolkien estate now Christopher Tolkien is gone now too.

But theyve chucked shit tons of dosh at it and the images look impressive.

I just really hope its not Game of the Rings of Middle Earthen Thrones - the whole concept of GOT was for George RR Martin to be the anti Tolkien.

No Hobbits pumping Elves and bi curious Dwarves in drag. Not in anything derived from Tolkiens work anyway.

I’m worried and excited too but I’m encouraged by what I’ve seen and heard. 

Tolkien Estate is very involved in this. Game of Thrones style has been ruled out explicitly; it’s to be PG-14 in US rating terms. 

Shippey got the boot, he didn’t leave. It was for breaching his NDA by saying too much to a German Tolkien website.

Cast changes in the early stages are fine. Stuart Townsend had started filming as Aragorn before he was replaced by Viggo Mortensen. 

I have no doubt lessons have been learned from The Hobbit films. How could they not be?  

I’m happy to embrace it in good faith as adaptation. New characters are ok I think as the 2nd Age does need some fleshing out to get 5 seasons out of it. Tauriel was actually fine in the Hobbit films apart from the love triangle - that was just unacceptable. There are elements of the story that just must not be changed though IMO. We shall see.

 

[D Angelo Barksdale]

I hope they put Tom Bombadil in this.

[Thorongil]

Teaser should be live on YouTube from 1.45am.