Amazon’s Tolkien Adaptation - Coming 2nd September 2022 Discussion

[RandomGuy.]

9 hours ago, Theroadlesstravelled said:

 

Shite like this is just infuriating to me.

Folk acting like the original trilogy didnt change characters looks, change entire plots, and just plain make stuff up, compared to the books.

Its a work of fiction based on a work of fiction.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Shite like this is just infuriating to me.
Folk acting like the original trilogy didnt change characters looks, change entire plots, and just plain make stuff up, compared to the books.
Its a work of fiction based on a work of fiction.

That's not what most people are complaining about though.

It's the directionless plot of the first episode which has, quite rightly, put it in the firing line. Style over any literary substance is the big concern.

[welshbairn]

13 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

That's not what most people are complaining about though.

It's the directionless plot of the first episode has, quite rightly, put it in the firing line. Style over any literary substance is the big concern.
 

Haven't watched it yet but if the Tolkien family hadn't put such greedy limits on what texts the writers could use it might seem more authentic.

P.S. Note to self: better to remain silent than broadcast your ignorance (something like that)..

https://nerdalicious.com.au/books/why-peter-jackson-will-never-film-the-silmarillion/

Edited September 6, 2022 by welshbairn

[yoda]

22 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

That's not what most people are complaining about though.

It's the directionless plot of the first episode which has, quite rightly, put it in the firing line. Style over any literary substance is the big concern.



 

It was the first episode of what is supposed to be a multi-season TV show. They're not going to lay out everything in the first hour. You need to be prepared to wait.

It is a weird criticism. Like in the most recent Star Wars one when folk whinged that some specific plot point wasn't explained in the first episode - only for it to be explained several episodes later. Almost as if that was the point.

This whole series might be absolutely terrible but "the first episode had no plot" is not a particularly legitimate criticism. And it's been used as a cover by a lot of the permanently online culture warriors in order for them to cry more about "wokeism".

 

Edited September 6, 2022 by yoda

[dorlomin]

Take away the CGI and its awful. The CGI is phenomenal. It is the best thing visually ever on TV. But every other part is dire. Now if you are a fan of the show and of this type of show, you will disagree strongly. But for me its "all fur coat and nae knickers". 

I will show an example, first two minutes. 

 

These are supposed to be two of the noblest elves in Middle Earth (only Galadriel, Gil Galad and Cirdan would be higher status) on a diplomatic mission from an highly developed elven kingdom to the most important dwarven realm. They walked alone across half a continent, their clothes look like they have just come off the costume department rack Their chat is like they are loaning a lawnmower of off an old college buddy, "yeah hank has a lawn mower, hell he will have the chilled brewskies out and the baseball game on as soon as I knock". 

Compare with game of thrones, towards the end series it got as ridiculous as this. But here is Robert Baratheon visiting his old friend. 

 

Clothes look worn (except with part of the royal entourage where there is an actual entourage to keep them in good nick or have new ones available for the meetings), there is a clear formal planning to the visit, both parties have their full power on display etc etc. And they are not walking. 

Making good fantasy for adults on tv or cinema is hard (I am not talking about dodgy cable channels called Fantasy). Other than GOT and the Jackson Lord of the Rings films, how many have really had big successes with the medieval fantasy type stuff on the big screen? Both are famous for the effort they took in things like costume, set design, weapons etc to make a world that looked and felt real. 

They also closely followed two great authors who had done most of the heavy lifting in world building. 

Which is why when you get shows and films that do not have that attention to detail and closely follow the few people who can write this stuff for a mass audience like Tolkien and Martin, you quickly end up looking like a super expensive episode of Dr Who. 

 If you enjoy it fine. But I am really talking to those who feel its "a bit off". Too many corners cut on the things you do not notice and a few hundred million spent on poor buggers in CGI sweat shops. 

 

[mishtergrolsch]

2 minutes ago, dorlomin said:

Take away the CGI and its awful. The CGI is phenomenal. It is the best thing visually ever on TV. But every other part is dire. Now if you are a fan of the show and of this type of show, you will disagree strongly. But for me its "all fur coat and nae knickers". 

I will show an example, first two minutes. 

 

These are supposed to be two of the noblest elves in Middle Earth (only Galadriel, Gil Galad and Cirdan would be higher status) on a diplomatic mission from an highly developed elven kingdom to the most important dwarven realm. They walked alone across half a continent, their clothes look like they have just come off the costume department rack Their chat is like they are loaning a lawnmower of off an old college buddy, "yeah hank has a lawn mower, hell he will have the chilled brewskies out and the baseball game on as soon as I knock". 

 

I actually laughed out loud at them leaving Celebrimbor outside.

[Rodhull]

It's been a while since I watched them but did the elves walk around in tatty looking clothes in the Jackson movies?

Also I'm not sure Elrond is one of the highest ranked elves at this point. Wasn't he told at one point he couldn't attend a meeting because it was only for the elven lords or something like that? I don't think Galadriel is anywhere near the level she is at the time of the movies either.

It's not like I think this is a masterpiece or close by any means but some odd things to get hung up about. It's not quite the level of being upset at how much guards move while someone walks past them like in one of the recent House of the dragon episodes but still.. 

[RandomGuy.]

2 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

That's not what most people are complaining about though.

It most definitely is.

Folk are either just up front about it, or are trying to hide behind some bizzaro criticism that a show that'll go on for 5+ seasons is a slow burner.

Peoples minds were made up before the show began, and thats fine, but stop boring the folk who actually want to try and enjoy a brand new LOTR story please.

I love the LOTR world Tolkien built, and read all the books multiple times etc., and I'm just delighted to see new parts of it on screen and characters come to life. If it turns out to be shite then so be it.

Edited September 6, 2022 by RandomGuy.

[Theroadlesstravelled]

5 hours ago, dorlomin said:

Take away the CGI and its awful. The CGI is phenomenal. It is the best thing visually ever on TV. But every other part is dire. Now if you are a fan of the show and of this type of show, you will disagree strongly. But for me its "all fur coat and nae knickers". 

I will show an example, first two minutes. 

 

 

 

 

That's really bad.

LOTR was an unsurpassed masterpiece. This is Middle Earth Corrie.

 

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

Just like the other big fantasy show at the moment I think it's fine. The CGI looks great, as someone who likes a bit of Tolkein world building it's cool to see the dwarf and elf kingdoms depicted, it looks really really lovely and there's some cool attention to detail. It's very clunky though, and while House of the Dragon has learned from how annoying the apparent teleportation travelling of GoT was, the same problem is here (most notably in the scene shared above). The plot directions all seem pretty interesting thus far and while I don't think the characters are particularly interesting yet it's very early days, so I'm hopeful.

I think culture warriors and massive Tolkein heads were pretty primed to hate it, and others have had their expectations raised a lot by the budget, but ultimately this is big budget tv these days. Chucking a bunch of money to make a new Star Wars, LotR or other IP show just gets us this very pretty middle of the road stuff. Even GoT only really reached prestige TV levels of quality for a couple of seasons, the fumbling of the ending had people way overestimating some of the quality of the early show.   

Edited September 7, 2022 by Genuine Hibs Fan

[DeeTillEhDeh]

It most definitely is.
Folk are either just up front about it, or are trying to hide behind some bizzaro criticism that a show that'll go on for 5+ seasons is a slow burner.
Peoples minds were made up before the show began, and thats fine, but stop boring the folk who actually want to try and enjoy a brand new LOTR story please.
I love the LOTR world Tolkien built, and read all the books multiple times etc., and I'm just delighted to see new parts of it on screen and characters come to life. If it turns out to be shite then so be it.

I'm a huge Tolkien fan as well - when I saw the trailers for this I was excited - the first episode felt like a real letdown. Very disjointed - also wasn't sure about some of the casting - Elrond was dreadful. I genuinely hope it improves (and sounds as if episode 2 has).

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

21 hours ago, dorlomin said:

They walked alone across half a continent, their clothes look like they have just come off the costume department rack Their chat is like they are loaning a lawnmower of off an old college buddy, "yeah hank has a lawn mower, hell he will have the chilled brewskies out and the baseball game on as soon as I knock". 

they were in Ost-in-Edhel, the capital of Eregion, which is actually just down the road Khazad- Dum

if you are going to nitpick at least get the details right

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

8 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

 

 

I'm a huge Tolkien fan as well - when I saw the trailers for this I was excited - the first episode felt like a real letdown. Very disjointed - also wasn't sure about some of the casting - Elrond was dreadful. I genuinely hope it improves (and sounds as if episode 2 has).



 

I really like that they are trying to tell a big and wide ranging story.

it is much more like Game of Thrones with the world spanning multi perspective story telling compared to the more limited scope of LotR where you are always with the Hobbits or Aragorn. But it kept the style and essential stuff of Lord of the Rings. Where people talk about feeling evil and shadow and corruption.

I wasn't getting Elrond until the scene on the way out of Khazad Dum. Up until then he was overly arrogant but I guess that is where the elves are at the moment.

[DA Baracus]

22 hours ago, Rodhull said:

It's been a while since I watched them but did the elves walk around in tatty looking clothes in the Jackson movies?

Legolas is in multiple battles and wears the same clothes that never even get creased.

[Rodhull]

3 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

Legolas is in multiple battles and wears the same clothes that never even get creased.

That's kind of what I thought about the elves on the whole. Even Gandalf when he became Gandalf the white felt similar too.

Just seemed a surprising thing to point out for the new show.

[DA Baracus]

1 minute ago, Rodhull said:

That's kind of what I thought about the elves on the whole. Even Gandalf when he became Gandalf the white felt similar too.

Just seemed a surprising thing to point out for the new show.

Aye Gandalf is at the battle of the Pelennor and then marches to Mordor and fights in the battle of the Black Gate, but barely seems to have a mark on his shiny white outfit. 

Pretty sure Gimli wears the same stuff throughout the three films and it's barely even scuffed, and he too is in loads of fights and is riding a horse for miles (admittedly behind Legolas, so perhaps his magical elven garments shield his dwarf pal) and firing through Moria, up in the mountains, cutting about Fangorn etc.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Watched episode 2 last night - a big improvement on the first. Seemed to be more coherent and some humour as well to lighten the tone.

Thought overall it was better paced than the ponderous opening episode.

[Camster]

Just watched the 3rd Episode, enjoyed it. Elendil being a standout, Halbrand clearly ending up as one of the Nazgul.

That Warg design though...deary me...looked like Bluey on meth.

[sfha]

I tried watching the first episode and it was ok, then the hobbits with Irish accents appeared and I turned over! Is it worth sticking with?

[RandomGuy.]

Glad Halbrand doesn't look like being Sauron, them trying to make him anything but evil will be awful. Charming etc, yes, but dont make him sympathetic 

Warg design as said was awful, a pointless change, while the horse riding scene was one of the worst things I've ever seen.

Loving seeing all the places and characters though, the world is incredible.