Rank the Goalkeepers

[Insert Amusing Pseudonym]

2 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Then why is McGregor, who faced almost no shots last season, so high in the top flight one?

I've got xG per shot figures/goals conceded per shot/other metrics created, to try and account for different keepers facing different challenges. Been fucking about it for a few weeks and Gordon is literally always average based on last season.

Honestly some players just aren't liked on paper as its impossible to quantify what they bring through numbers, Gordon is probably one of those.

I'd suggest any combination of metrics that have Gordon below Ross Laidlaw necessitate the phrase 'back to the drawing board'

That's without the fact McGregor has somehow ended up behind Jak Alnwick

[RandomGuy.]

4 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

Out of interest, how does Stewart compare in his limited appearances to Gordon? Is there a substantial drop?

He never played 600 league minutes so I've not got him in it. Use per90 figures and if I go below 600 mins it gets fucked up due to small sample sizes.

3 minutes ago, Insert Amusing Pseudonym said:

I'd suggest any combination of metrics that have Gordon below Ross Laidlaw necessitate the phrase 'back to the drawing board'

That's without the fact McGregor has somehow ended up behind Jak Alnwick

Alnwick was quality, tbf.

As I say, its hard to fairly judge keepers as theres so few metrics for them.

Attempt #203846 looks like...

1. McGregor
2. Siegrist
3. Marciano
4. Alnwick
5. Bain
6. Lewis
7. Stryjek
8. Kelly
9. Fulton
10. Laidlaw
11. Clark
12. Rogers

Gordon comes out this one just below Marciano.

Honestly I can spend hours fucking about with keepers then ending up where I started 

[Ludo*1]

1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

He never played 600 league minutes so I've not got him in it. Use per90 figures and if I go below 600 mins it gets fucked up due to small sample sizes.

Alnwick was quality, tbf.

As I say, its hard to fairly judge keepers as theres so few metrics for them.

Attempt #203846 looks like...

1. McGregor
2. Siegrist
3. Marciano
4. Alnwick
5. Bain
6. Lewis
7. Stryjek
8. Kelly
9. Fulton
10. Laidlaw
11. Clark
12. Rogers

Gordon comes out this one just below Marciano.

Honestly I can spend hours fucking about with keepers then ending up where I started 

That's much more accurate with Bain being a massive outlier. Where would Legzdins have slotted in on that measurement?

[parsforlife]

8 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Then why is McGregor, who faced almost no shots last season, so high in the top flight one?

I've got xG per shot figures/goals conceded per shot/other metrics created, to try and account for different keepers facing different challenges. Been fucking about it for a few weeks and Gordon is literally always average based on last season.

Honestly some players just aren't liked on paper as its impossible to quantify what they bring through numbers, Gordon is probably one of those.

2 factors that could be added in, though would need weighting as they are team based as well.

Shots faced/xG faced,  this would take into consideration ability to organise, tho difficult to decide how much is the keeper and what is other players.

high xG shots prevented, tho this would favour OFW types who can pull off very good stops but often f**k up simple ones.   This could help consider keepers like Gordon preventing near certain goals whilst ignoring the .1  range efforts, something they are more likely to face if they are are in a well organised side, and something you are more looking for defenders to prevent.

xG isn’t a perfected system yet either, tho it is very good.

You also need to consider other attributes that managers want from keepers, pass percentage, crosses collected/cut out,  interceptions(most likely in long range foot race scenarios with keeper rushing out to meet long ball ahead of striker.). I’m not sure these would entirely favour Gordon,  but they are becoming increasingly significant.

[tree house tam]

Clownshoes Clark is down there with the worst,  which is ironic because he struggles to get down anywhere. 

[RandomGuy.]

3 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

That's much more accurate with Bain being a massive outlier. Where would Legzdins have slotted in on that measurement?

Just below Kelly.

1 minute ago, parsforlife said:

2 factors that could be added in, though would need weighting as they are team based as well.

Shots faced/xG faced,  this would take into consideration ability to organise, tho difficult to decide how much is the keeper and what is other players.

high xG shots prevented, tho this would favour OFW types who can pull off very good stops but often f**k up simple ones.   This could help consider keepers like Gordon preventing near certain goals whilst ignoring the .1  range efforts, something they are more likely to face if they are are in a well organised side, and something you are more looking for defenders to prevent.

xG isn’t a perfected system yet either, tho it is very good.

You also need to consider other attributes that managers want from keepers, pass percentage, crosses collected/cut out,  interceptions(most likely in long range foot race scenarios with keeper rushing out to meet long ball ahead of striker.). I’m not sure these would entirely favour Gordon,  but they are becoming increasingly significant.

I tried using xG per shot faced but it ends up weighted against McGregor, who barely faced any shot last season, and he ends up in the bottom half.

Have "sweeper" and "aerial" statistics but they seem heavily weighted towards "style" rather than performance. Some keepers aren't instructed to leave their box.

[RandomGuy.]

@Ludo*1 FWIW this is the "scores" I get for the keepers now. Which might make Bain look worse than his position suggests?

1. McGregor - 100
2. Siegrist - 92.5
3. Marciano - 82.5
4. Alnwick - 77.5
5. Bain - 70
6. Lewis - 70
7. Stryjek - 67.5
8. Kelly - 62.5
9. Fulton - 42.5
10. Laidlaw - 40
11. Clark - 35
12. Rogers - 30

Gordon scores 77.7, and Legzdins scores 50.

Could probably have five groups last season.

Great: McGregor, Siegrist

Reliable/Solid: Marciano, Alnwick

Solid but flawed: Bain, Lewis, Styjek, Kelly

Flawed but capable: Fulton, Laidlaw

Clownshoes: Clark, Rogers

Edited August 2, 2021 by RandomGuy.

[Orbix]

Use ‘Length of bollocking given to defence after being made to make a save’ as a multiplier and McGregor will rocket up to the top of the list again.

Like a 30 second LoBGtDAbmtmas suggests a keeper that doesn’t care, but I’ve seen him sit Goldson down for a chat with slideshows. 

[Ludo*1]

1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

@Ludo*1 FWIW this is the "scores" I get for the keepers now. Which might make Bain look worse than his position suggests?

1. McGregor - 100
2. Siegrist - 92.5
3. Marciano - 82.5
4. Alnwick - 77.5
5. Bain - 70
6. Lewis - 70
7. Stryjek - 67.5
8. Kelly - 62.5
9. Fulton - 42.5
10. Laidlaw - 40
11. Clark - 35
12. Rogers - 30

Gordon scores 77.7, and Legzdins scores 50.

I'd say that Alnwick is over-performing, but he had a very good season for St Mirren whilst a much better keeper like Lewis didn't do as well. I'd say that's much more reasonable. Still not getting why Bain scores so highly but as I said before, I reckon that's much more accurate than your previous attempt and it's just a case of 'This keeper isn't as good, but did he have a better season?' which accounts for Alnwick's high score.

[parsforlife]

1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

Have "sweeper" and "aerial" statistics but they seem heavily weighted towards "style" rather than performance. Some keepers aren't instructed to leave their box.

Aye I guess there’s a difficulty ranking there.    Keepers(and probably after that centre backs) are going to suffer/benefit from teams style most.   If your a manager/DoF/analyst looking at it then they will weight their system towards the players the want.

You are trying to rank who the best keeper is, which will likely be more rounded.  But these guys are more asking ‘what’s the best keeper for us?’ Which is a different question.  A possession based team will look at pass percentage far higher than a long ball side.  A team playing a high line will consider sweeper stats more.   Someone playing narrow might want a better keeper in the air etc

[RandomGuy.]

1 minute ago, Ludo*1 said:

I'd say that Alnwick is over-performing, but he had a very good season for St Mirren whilst a much better keeper like Lewis didn't do as well. I'd say that's much more reasonable. Still not getting why Bain scores so highly but as I said before, I reckon that's much more accurate than your previous attempt and it's just a case of 'This keeper isn't as good, but did he have a better season?' which accounts for Alnwick's high score.

I think Lewis let in, at least one, dribbler last season which will have affected his score. I used to use 3 seasons worth of data for this which likely would push Lewis up/Bain down, but it's not overly useful for scouting to know how good a player was 3 years ago.

[SANTAN]

Gordon is good and I do actually quite like the Livingston keeper but shagger is on a different level....

 

[parsforlife]

@RandomGuy. 
 

I might be being a little silly now, but have you found any way to factor in non-standard info,  can you even get this?

Thinking things like time wasting(something every good keeper should have,  i admire Rab  Douglas for this), bamming up opponents etc.

Less controversial things such as being adaptive etc also included

Edited August 2, 2021 by parsforlife

[Meeniedee]

i could have played in goal for rangers last season and looked good and im 49 and a fat b*****d....never get the love in folk have for old firm keepers when 95% of their time on the park is spent chatting to fans.

[RandomGuy.]

Just now, parsforlife said:

@RandomGuy. 
 

I might be being a little silly now, but have you found any way to factor in non-standard info,  can you even get this?

Thinking things like time wasting(something every good keeper should have,  i admire ran Douglas for this), bamming up opponents etc.

Less controversial things such as being adaptive etc also included

I imagine most keepers get booking for things like time wasting etc., so could potentially add in a "dickhead" metric using cards.

[TommyDickFingers]

1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

could potentially add in a "dickhead" metric

 

8 minutes ago, SANTAN said:

shagger is on a different level....

 

 

[Ludo*1]

7 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

@RandomGuy. 
 

I might be being a little silly now, but have you found any way to factor in non-standard info,  can you even get this?

Thinking things like time wasting(something every good keeper should have,  i admire ran Douglas for this), bamming up opponents etc.

Less controversial things such as being adaptive etc also included

Rab was fucking top notch at slowing the game down and just looking like he was just old and slow to run about and collect the ball from behind the goal.

That said, if we are doing a shite c**t top trumps in that regard, Tomas Cerny's acting injured routine is the best I've ever seen. The Lionel Messi of timewasting.

[parsforlife]

1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

I imagine most keepers get booking for things like time wasting etc., so could potentially add in a "dickhead" metric using cards.

But the problem there is the best dickheads are magnificently able to go right up to the line but avoid the booking.

Different position, higher level, more stats etc,   But I heard somewhere Fernandinho has one of the highest amount of fouls committed vs cards.    He has found the perfect way/time to commit fouls with not conceding bookings, but also not conceding free kicks in dangerous positions whilst also preventing attacks.  Factor that into a system...

[welldaft]

I would put Siegrist and MacGregor ahead of Kelly and that is that. 

Don’t need any fancy system. 

Would be surprised and disappointed if he did not get in the Scotland squad. Should certainly be in there ahead of a Rangers reserve keeper. 

He was outstanding for us last season and got Players player of the year. Bearing in mind he only came in Jan 2021. 

 

[parsforlife]

6 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

Rab was fucking top notch at slowing the game down and just looking like he was just old and slow to run about and collect the ball from behind the goal.

That said, if we are doing a shite c**t top trumps in that regard, Tomas Cerny's acting injured routine is the best I've ever seen. The Lionel Messi of timewasting.

I remember Rab getting booked for marking the width of his goals on his 6 yard box with you.  

he was asked in an interview afterwards about it,  and it was along the lines of ‘aye, I was right to get booked, you’re no meant to do that but I’ve done it for 25 years and it’s the first time I’ve been caught’