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Just watched the highlights and it looks like Celtic's chopped off goal was offside due to the boy's arm being off when he was pointing to where he wanted it passed. That's funny. 

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2 hours ago, TheJTS98 said:

A lot of the chat last night was about how unusual it is for Celtic to lose an opening game, or even to drop points.

They lost at Hibs in 1997-8 (then lost their second game, too), and since then they've  only dropped points on the opening day in 2003-04, 05-06 (4-4 at Motherwell then lost comprehensively at Ibrox in game 4), and 07-08.

What nobody seems to be mentioning is that they won the league in all four of those seasons.

They look a shambles, but it's not the time for big calls yet. Transfer window isn't shut and they had a couple of new lads last night who may or may not turn out to be useful.

Agree with most of what you say, the decision to play both Starfelt and Bitton was probably 2 fold, firstly as the 2 young lads played 120 minutes midweek and secondly going to Hearts it’s usually pretty physical.

I think we were also unlucky to have Abadas goal chopped off and Hearts were a tad lucky to keep Halliday on the park, on 2nd viewing that was a bit of a shocker.

We are still a number of players short, we need 2 new fullbacks who can play the way Ange wants, a keeper also has to be a priority. Then look to a centre forward as Edouard is pissing me right off with his half arsed attitude 

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38 minutes ago, TheJTS98 said:

I think that's a no-win situation where the reaction is based purely on the result.

Their defence has been taking a public kicking. If he leaves out his new centre-half and they lose, he gets crucified. If he plays him and they lose, then some people will say he should have left him out.

In his situation with an inexperienced team and young players who had played 120 minutes abroad (and been knocked out), I can see why he chucked the new guy in.

I can certainly see where you're coming from, but I think in the circumstances a bit of chopping and changing is to be expected. They're a mess.

Yes, they appear to be a shambles. I thought his priority would have been a goalkeeper but clearly it isn’t. I’m sure the lads from Israel and Japan will turn out good signings but I don’t think he was smart to target that end of the pitch when his goalkeeper and also defence are really poor.

 

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9 minutes ago, Grangemouth Bairn said:

Yes, they appear to be a shambles. I thought his priority would have been a goalkeeper but clearly it isn’t. I’m sure the lads from Israel and Japan will turn out good signings but I don’t think he was smart to target that end of the pitch when his goalkeeper and also defence are really poor.

 

I was thinking about this during a game, and I've still not really made up my mind.

I remember, for example, Craig Levein's first time as Hearts manager working out so well because the first thing he did was work on defence, defence, defence, and leave everything else till later. That solid foundation got us back-to-back third place finishes, and the UEFA Cup group stage, as well as leaving us the spine of the Burley team.

So, my instinct is to favour that kind of approach.

But it looks to me like AP is going baws-oot in playing his preferred system regardless of whether the personnel are in place. And maybe in the modern game that's right. You just implement the system and get it bedded in. I'm still not sure what I think there.

I think what he's saying is that he values having the long-term preferred system in place over getting three points last night. He might be right, he might be wrong.

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4 minutes ago, TheJTS98 said:

I was thinking about this during a game, and I've still not really made up my mind.

I remember, for example, Craig Levein's first time as Hearts manager working out so well because the first thing he did was work on defence, defence, defence, and leave everything till later. That solid foundation got us back-to-back third place finishes, and the UEFA Cup group stage, as well as leaving us the spine of the Burley team.

So, my instinct is to favour that kind of approach.

But it looks to me like AP is going baws-oot in playing his preferred system regardless of whether the personnel are in place. And maybe in the modern game that's right. You just implement the system and get it bedded in. I'm still not sure what I think there.

I think what he's saying is that he values having the long-term preferred system in place over getting three points last night. He might be right, he might be wrong.

He’ll get away with it for a little while maybe. He’s the first Celtic manager I can ever remember not being under pressure to win every game.

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14 minutes ago, Dee Man said:

Just watched the highlights and it looks like Celtic's chopped off goal was offside due to the boy's arm being off when he was pointing to where he wanted it passed. That's funny. 

The same thing happened to Bamford at Leeds last season when VAR ruled him to be offside because of him pointing where he wanted the ball to go. 

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2 minutes ago, Grangemouth Bairn said:

He’ll get away with it for a little while maybe. He’s the first Celtic manager I can ever remember not being under pressure to win every game.

Aye, it seems that - absolute lunatics aside - he's still got the patience of the support and media in general. Impossible to say how long that lasts.

It's a hospital pass of a job, but he's a very good coach and I think he'll do well if he's given the time. Who knows, though.

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14 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

Agree with most of what you say, the decision to play both Starfelt and Bitton was probably 2 fold, firstly as the 2 young lads played 120 minutes midweek and secondly going to Hearts it’s usually pretty physical.

I think we were also unlucky to have Abadas goal chopped off and Hearts were a tad lucky to keep Halliday on the park, on 2nd viewing that was a bit of a shocker.

We are still a number of players short, we need 2 new fullbacks who can play the way Ange wants, a keeper also has to be a priority. Then look to a centre forward as Edouard is pissing me right off with his half arsed attitude 

I think it's reasonable to say Hearts got the breaks. I don't think Halliday is a definite red, but it's not one I'd have been completely shocked/outraged by if given either. A grey area one. To be fair, my view of everything he does is clouded by the fact that he's maybe my least favourite Hearts player of all time. A bellend, but he does a job from time to time.

Likewise, the offside is tight as f**k and could have gone either way. I wouldn't have been on here raging about it if the goal had been given. I think we're due this for you mugging us in two cup finals running.

I thought the way Celtic moved the ball at times was impressive, but, like you say, they have a lack of quality at fullback that means they don't make the most of those positions when they stretch the opposition. It'll be interesting to see what they're like in a year if AP makes it that far.

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2 hours ago, TheJTS98 said:

A lot of the chat last night was about how unusual it is for Celtic to lose an opening game, or even to drop points.

They lost at Hibs in 1997-8 (then lost their second game, too), and since then they've  only dropped points on the opening day in 2003-04, 05-06 (4-4 at Motherwell then lost comprehensively at Ibrox in game 4), and 07-08.

What nobody seems to be mentioning is that they won the league in all four of those seasons.

They look a shambles, but it's not the time for big calls yet. Transfer window isn't shut and they had a couple of new lads last night who may or may not turn out to be useful.

Opening day in 1997😮😱. Chic Charnley🤣. Hibs banged in a 4 and a 5 by the end of August after beating Celtic. Won about another 3 games in the next 8 months. Relegated comfortably.

Starts can be deceptive, right enough.

Next season I biked it up from London for the 1st two Hibs games: two appalling performances, eased by last minute winners at Morton & Accies, who were at Firhill that year. I was already so disheartened that I missed the 1st home game... the legendary loss to Stranraer. Hibs skooshed the division. 

The difference between Celtic dropping points on opening day in those four seasons and Celtic dropping points yesterday is that Rangers lost either 6 or 7 games in each of those campaigns. Rangers finished behind Hearts in 05/06. Rangers could lose 6 league games this year. Bookies' odds for that would be huge, but  no bigger than the odds they'd have offered last July about Celtic failing to get 80 points.

Celtic's opening day performances in those previous years were the equivalent of starting a game of darts with 26 against someone who'll average 60, or carding a triple-bogey 7 at the 1st hole v. a golfer who'll shoot 80. They had easily enough breathing space to recover. They're probably playing a peak form Phil Taylor or Tiger Woods now. Rangers season last term was the equivalent of averaging 115 or shooting a 62. It's unlikely Rangers will repeat that campaign, but they won't be in the "averaging 60 at darts" or "carding 80 at golf" category.

Celtic should win their two league games before going to Greyskull / Mordor / the Dreadfort / whatever-amusing-name-they-console-themselves-with, but it's not a given and a loss at Ibrox may well mean they're out of wriggle room before they're out of August.

 

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4 minutes ago, FortescueFotheringhamSmyth said:

Opening day in 1997😮😱. Chic Charnley🤣. Hibs banged in a 4 and a 5 by the end of August after beating Celtic. Won about another 3 games in the next 8 months. Relegated comfortably.

Starts can be deceptive, right enough.

Next season I biked it up from London for the 1st two Hibs games: two appalling performances, eased by last minute winners at Morton & Accies, who were at Firhill that year. I was already so disheartened that I missed the 1st home game... the legendary loss to Stranraer. Hibs skooshed the division. 

The difference between Celtic dropping points on opening day in those four seasons and Celtic dropping points yesterday is that Rangers lost either 6 or 7 games in each of those campaigns. Rangers finished behind Hearts in 05/06. Rangers could lose 6 league games this year. Bookies' odds for that would be huge, but  no bigger than the odds they'd have offered last July about Celtic failing to get 80 points.

Celtic's opening day performances in those previous years were the equivalent of starting a game of darts with 26 against someone who'll average 60, or carding a triple-bogey 7 at the 1st hole v. a golfer who'll shoot 80. They had easily enough breathing space to recover. They're probably playing a peak form Phil Taylor or Tiger Woods now. Rangers season last term was the equivalent of averaging 115 or shooting a 62. It's unlikely Rangers will repeat that campaign, but they won't be in the "averaging 60 at darts" or "carding 80 at golf" category.

Celtic should win their two league games before going to Greyskull / Mordor / the Dreadfort / whatever-amusing-name-they-console-themselves-with, but it's not a given and a loss at Ibrox may well mean they're out of wriggle room before they're out of August.

 

In '97 Hibs were top when Hearts went to Easter Road and won 1-0 (Neil McCann) at the end of August. It was the start of a run where Hearts won something like 11 out of 12 in the league and obviously went on to have an incredible season. There hasn't been a non-OF season like it since. And, aye, Hibs fell like a stone. The Stranraer result was one of those beautiful days you get in fitba sometimes.

I get what you're saying about the shifting context around dropping points completely. But I think we can be too quick to judge things. In August '97 Wim Jansen was a nobody with 0 points from 6 and Walter Smith was a shoo-in to finish off ten-in-a-row. 2003-04, Celtic had won nothing then were pish against Dunfermline on day 1 and the wise heads were having Rangers nailed on for another title. Likewise after Rangers beat Celtic in August 2005.

I understand the context has shifted a bit. But the general point stands that there is this obsession in football culture these days of 'calling' things. It's too early to call anything. We don't know what Celtic's starting 11 will be in a month, or if Rangers are going to hit some kind of problem.

It's a fitba season, just wait and see. We've seen the general wisdom be wrong so many times before.

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Celtic actually played some really good football. 

My concern before the game was that we'd get over-run with just the two in midfield - credit to Robbie for changing to a 3-5-2 from the 3-4-3.

The flag was up very early for the goal that was disallowed.

Halliday's alleged red card tackle looked like a solid tackle from where we were sitting at the time - haven't seen a replay yet.

Gordan was excellent, and Soapy was immense - what a player he can be if he steers clear of injuries.

Lots of Hearts bodies queueing up in the box for our first goal.

Smith should have done better with a great chance just before half time.

Cochrane did well to stand up to Forrest.

A fantastic debut from Beni.

The most unusual thing about last night's game against celtic at Tynecastle was that the Roseburn stand wasn't as full of wrong 'uns.

Even so, still some dafties turning up to a game for which their club had been allocated no tickets.

Great to be back at the fitba', and a handy shree points. 

 

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21 minutes ago, TheJTS98 said:

Aye, it seems that - absolute lunatics aside - he's still got the patience of the support and media in general. Impossible to say how long that lasts.

It's a hospital pass of a job, but he's a very good coach and I think he'll do well if he's given the time. Who knows, though.

Yes, he’s definitely got a good pedigree although it’s all outside of European football apart from a short stint in Greece.

As an outsider though there appears to be very little chemistry between him and his back room team - it’s a pity he’s not been allowed to bring some of his own men with him. I’m not sure Kennedy can be trusted.

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1 hour ago, Grangemouth Bairn said:

Personally I think Welsh is a better centre half than Bitton - it’s only an opinion.

 

I remember the days when Bitton was brought in as a midfielder and they spelt his name with only one T

Seriously though, it feels like the guys only job for the last few years is to plug a hole at the back at the start of every season because we are always short.

 

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12 minutes ago, FortescueFotheringhamSmyth said:

Opening day in 1997😮😱. Chic Charnley🤣. Hibs banged in a 4 and a 5 by the end of August after beating Celtic. Won about another 3 games in the next 8 months. Relegated comfortably.

 

 

Some shite foreign import came off the bench for Celtic and laid it off for Charnley to batter in the winner.

Henrik something, wonder what happened to him?

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5 minutes ago, Girth said:

Just watched the highlights. Gordon looks possessed! Excellent. 

Gordon should never have been released as Celtic keeper - it didnt take any football genius to know that he still had years of being a good keeper ahead of him.

The decision making process seems even more flawed when you see what Celtic have retained between the sticks...............

It amazed me at the time, and he has gone on to prove it was a stupid decision regularly since then.

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