Astro parks - top flight

[0Neils40yarder]

Probably been discussed a million times before but...is there any appetite to get rid of this nonsense while Killie are out of the league?

[gannonball]

Personally I would like to see them gone from the top league. Some seem a lot worse than others though like at Almondvale*. I Think we still have a hybrid surface which seems to be the way forward. It just screams tinpot for our top league, maintenance of grass pitches seem to be much better now too compared to years gone by as well, Motherwell being a stellar example for improvement.

I would look to ban it (fully synthetic) with 2 seasons notice to allow plenty planning for removal etc.

Edited July 28, 2021 by gannonball

[coprolite]

I think we need a solid evidence base to ban them. 

We previously imposed extra premises costs on clubs simply to seem less tinpot with 10k stadia. If anything, that increased tinpottedness. 

If clubs can minimise costs plus get revenue from their rubber carpets then there needs to be a good reason to stop them. 

9 minutes ago, gannonball said:

Personally I would like to see them gone from the top league. Some seem a lot worse than others though like at Almondvale*. I Think we still have a hybrid surface which seems to be the way forward. It just screams tinpot for our top league, maintenance of grass pitches seem to be much better now too compared to years gone by as well, Motherwell being a stellar example for improvement.

I would look to ban it (fully synthetic) with 2 seasons notice to allow plenty planning for removal etc.

Disco lights scream tinpot. Money can't buy class. 

[topcat(The most tip top)]

41 minutes ago, gannonball said:

Personally I would like to see them gone from the top league. Some seem a lot worse than others though like at Almondvale*. I Think we still have a hybrid surface which seems to be the way forward. It just screams tinpot for our top league, maintenance of grass pitches seem to be much better now too compared to years gone by as well, Motherwell being a stellar example for improvement.

I would look to ban it (fully synthetic) with 2 seasons notice to allow plenty planning for removal etc.

The  one at Raith Rovers  seemed quite good

Maybe it's the ground staff at Livingston that are tin pot

[gannonball]

44 minutes ago, coprolite said:

I think we need a solid evidence base to ban them. 

We previously imposed extra premises costs on clubs simply to seem less tinpot with 10k stadia. If anything, that increased tinpottedness. 

If clubs can minimise costs plus get revenue from their rubber carpets then there needs to be a good reason to stop them. 

Disco lights scream tinpot. Money can't buy class. 

The 10k thing was a ridiculous rule and many clubs suffered needless financial difficulties trying to match it. We actually looked even worse for it with empty stadiums that were never going to be filled.  
For this however , Clubs can still invest in synthetic pitches for revenue it just wont be their main pitch. 

As for the ‘disco lights’ they are fine when the sun is down on European night but are pretty pointless attempting them any other time like last week during the height of summer. But admittedly they aren’t a patch on the Allianz arena ones when I was there, we would have never been able to retrofit ones like theres though without an obscene cost.

Edited July 28, 2021 by gannonball

[EdinburghLivi]

Ye just dinny get a good game oan them.

[LIVIFOREVER]

31 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

The  one at Raith Rovers  seemed quite good

Maybe it's the ground staff at Livingston that are tin pot

Did you not get gubbed 5-0 on their one then?

[GNU_Linux]

Ye just dinny get a good game oan them.

The baw boonces different so it does.

[latapythelegend]

1 hour ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

The  one at Raith Rovers  seemed quite good

Maybe it's the ground staff at Livingston that are tin pot

I dislike Livi pretty strongly but I've played 15-20 matches on the pitch at Livi and genuinely don't see what the issue is. The ball reacts as you would expect it to and unless somebody can prove otherwise, there are no more injuries than there would be on grass.

I would obviously prefer to play at pristine grass pitches every week but that simply wont happen in Scotland so I have no issue with 3g pitches. 

[Cptn Hooch]

2 hours ago, gannonball said:

Some seem a lot worse than others though like at Almondvale*.

"Seem" being the big word here. The Livi pitch is the exact same surface as Raith Rovers except they got green pellets and we got black, purely aesthetic

37 minutes ago, latapythelegend said:

I dislike Livi pretty strongly but I've played 15-20 matches on the pitch at Livi and genuinely don't see what the issue is. The ball reacts as you would expect it to and unless somebody can prove otherwise, there are no more injuries than there would be on grass.

I would obviously prefer to play at pristine grass pitches every week but that simply wont happen in Scotland so I have no issue with 3g pitches. 

You canny be on here talking as much sense as this...it'll never catch on

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

1 hour ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Did you not get gubbed 5-0 on their one then?

No.

[Theyellowbox]

In an ideal world, we wouldn't have them, but unfortunately finances dictate that for some clubs, they are a must. It would be interesting to see how much someone like Killie makes from theirs, or is the big benefit the saving to the club on training facilities. In the top flight, there should be a minimum quality requirement, I.e nothing less than 4g.

For clubs further down the scale, these must be a game changer in terms of rental income, training facilities and avoided maintenance costs. 

Someone like Montrose must go from c50-100 hours of use on a grass pitch to at least 10 times that on the astro pitch.

If the larger clubs are dead set against the top flight having no pitches, then they should forgoe a chunk of cash from sponsors/prizes, to be put into a pot to cover the costs of promoted teams having to rip them up and relay them if relegated.

Personally, I'd be gutted if my club opted for one. Aside from (in my opinion) not giving as good a game, it would diminish a bit the feeling of watching a home game if say for example you yourself played a 7 a side game on the same pitch every week. 

Edited July 28, 2021 by Theyellowbox

[ATLIS]

Could provide a bit of an issue for us. We don't own the stadium or the pitc, the council do. They're using the pitch as a local community hub along with their local charity. Pitch gets hired out constantly allowing young folk/anyone a place to safely play/train. Also used by local junior sides sometimes as well. 

We've got a 50 year lease on the stadium, but I'm not sure what would happen if we're told to rip it up and the council say no. Are we likely to see the league/other clubs fund a new stadium for us to play on grass? I don't think so. 

[HibeeJibee]

Almost exactly the same views were expressed in 1950s & 1960s about floodlights.

They were unnatural, unnecessary, unfair, artificial, poor quality, dumbing-down-the-game etc. etc.

Thankfully these attitudes did not - at least outside junior football - ultimately prevail. It'll be the same with astroturf.

Perfectly conceivable 25% of Premiership will have 'plastic' again next season... 40% of Championship do.
 

[Cptn Hooch]

22 minutes ago, Theyellowbox said:

it would diminish a bit the feeling of watching a home game if say for example you yourself played a 7 a side game on the same pitch every week. 

I can assure you it's the exact opposite feeling. Watching Lyndon Dykes lift the ball over Fraser Forster's head into the same goal I'd scored just 2 days before was a great feeling. Not many people will be able to play a game on their team's home pitch.

[gannonball]

30 minutes ago, Cptn Hooch said:

"Seem" being the big word here. The Livi pitch is the exact same surface as Raith Rovers except they got green pellets and we got black, purely aesthetic

You canny be on here talking as much sense as this...it'll never catch on

I think aesthetics plays a decent part though tbh, especially when we struggle to market the scottish game. Going off point a fair bit but its the same when you see the main camera gantry being in the largest stand  at places. Most of the game is focussed on a smaller stand with less people in it, just doesn't sell our game well at all. 

[Theyellowbox]

2 minutes ago, Cptn Hooch said:

I can assure you it's the exact opposite feeling. Watching Lyndon Dykes lift the ball over Fraser Forster's head into the same goal I'd scored just 2 days before was a great feeling. Not many people will be able to play a game on their team's home pitch.

Glad that's the case. I always just thought it would feel less 'special' but maybe as you say, it goes the other way, you see something great and then you are on the same pitch.

Have no massive issue as long as the pitches are of a good enough quality.

I get the point someone raised about floodlights. Game needs to evolve and it does. Astro pitches were and are  required  for some, but equally, the availability of pitch heat lamps etc also helps clubs use pitches more and ensures better quality. The right balance is a mix of all of it 

[Theyellowbox]

1 minute ago, gannonball said:

I think aesthetics plays a decent part though tbh, especially when we struggle to market the scottish game. Going off point a fair bit but its the same when you see the main camera gantry being in the largest stand  at places. Most of the game is focussed on a smaller stand with less people in it, just doesn't sell our game well at all. 

I always think that too. Firhill for example would look better with the camera in the main stand. Some places, the opposite would be true. Starks park would be better on the main stand side, so you don't see the street and St Johnstone and Dundee United would have a better atmosphere on TV if the camera was the side where most fans are. 

[Dee Man]

Let me guess how this thread will go - fans of clubs with artificial turf will defend their pitches and vice versa. 

[Ludo*1]

I'm in the minority but I quite like astro pitches and I certainly prefer playing on them. Granted, as a person that's never played above Sunday League (and being a goalkeeper), I'm used to shite grass pitches. Most grass pitches at that level tend to have a giant fucking rock embedded into the 6 yard box just waiting all pointedly for you to land on it.

I've played at Tannadice & Station Park several times. There's definitely a different bounce on astro pitches but the quality was higher than United's bumpy mess.

Dens (until last season) used to be considered one of the best pitches in the country and always looks immaculate, but I remember running onto the pitch after we won the league in 2014 and being shocked at how bad a state it was in that close up.

If we could have completely immaculate pitches all year round then grass wins every day of the week, but in Scotland I don't think that's really feasible. Don't get the furore people have over plastic pitches. Perhaps the hybrid set ups are the way forward?