Criminalizing Cat Calling/Wolf Whistling

[GordonS]

56 minutes ago, tamthebam said:

There's summary crime and solemn crime 

Summary crime proceeds with a "complaint" detailing the charge .

Solemn crime proceeds by way of Petition and then Indictment (before a jury if it goes to trial)

"Summary indictment" is an oxymoron.

The Criminal Procedure (Scotland) Act 1995 and the Act of Adjournal (Criminal Procedure Rules) 1996 are the required bedtime reading (insomniacs only) 

 

 

Sorry, I was rushing cos I was at a game. I meant solemn, obviously. 

[GordonS]

2 hours ago, Jambomo said:

I have noticed that Glasgow seems to be worse for it than Edinburgh was. I’ve lived in Edinburgh for 30 odd years and it only happened once to me, I’ve only lived in Glasgow since last March and been wolf whistled at twice and had some pretty lewd remarks made by a group of builders about whether they’d have sex with me or not. I am a 42 year old woman and whilst I know I don’t look my age, I am far from a good-looking young lassie - so God knows what they get or how they cope.

With regards to wolf-whistling, I don’t like like it and feel embarrassed and a bit cheap when it’s done to me so no, it’s not a compliment.

Remarks are worse though, even when you think they are positive! I don’t feel complimented or happy that they find me attractive or want to have sex with me, I feel embarrassed because I have no idea where to look or how to walk so they aren’t looking at me that way. I feel a bit disgusting that a complete stranger is even thinking of me In a sexual way, and annoyed at myself for being scared of them especially when I’ve done various martial arts and self-defence stuff for years so in theory should be able to handle trouble or at least answer back.
 

Those comments played on my mind for a few weeks afterwards and I could have reported them, I knew where they were working. What good would it do? If I told the police they’d laugh at me, it’s barely a crime. They’d get a telling off and if I walked past again, I’d be getting worse abuse for reporting them. It’s a catch-22.

The only real answer is for people (and I do include men and women in this) to stop thinking that it’s funny or ok to be shouting stuff or whistling at all. If you can’t stop yourself commenting on people simply passing by you, then you’ve got problems.

Thanks for risking the lions' den and sharing your experience. When Me Too kicked off I read hundreds of stories just like yours.

The level of harm that it can cause says to me that it should be an offence. Some women will be able to brush it off but others will be more affected by it, and the man making the comment can't know which. They also don't know if they're the first person to say something like it to that women or the tenth that week. Those who say sticks and stones are ignoring the harm that words cause - anxiety, fear, low self esteem and in the very worst cases, suicide.

The best solution IMO is for guys to tell their mates, family and colleagues to stop it. 

[coprolite]

Stupid idea. How's he supposed to know when his tea is ready? He'll be starving. Fortunately i don't have a wolf so that part doesn't affect me. 

[Gordon EF]

8 hours ago, GordonS said:

No, there is ambiguity, as I said that's why there's culp hom. They both involve causing death but the distinctions in terms of the levels of intent and recklessness can be pretty subjective. Case law nails them down as best it can but no two cases are exactly alike. Say I'm the getaway driver for a bank robbery. In the chase from the scene I lose control and crash into an ambulance carrying organs for transplant. The organs don't get there in time and the patient dies. Murder or culp hom? Or nothing?

There are whole textbooks and moot competitions on this kind of thing.

Yeah, point taken. I'd say it's far less ambiguous though. 

I'd say that example isn't murder, fairly comfortably. I mean, say it was exactly the same but the driver wasn't a getaway driver. Say they were driving to church and hit a patch of black ice. Nobody would be charging that person with murder.

[Tony Ferrino]

Wolf whistling indicates a level of stupidity which should be illegal in its own right.

[Rugster]

16 hours ago, Detournement said:

If there are multiple guys on a site how are they going to prove which one whistled?

 

 

Whistling line up

[Detournement]

1 hour ago, Rugster said:

Whistling line up

It's the kind of thing wee boys would get in trouble for at school. In that sort of situation the teacher would just threaten to punish everyone and someone would crack and grass. 

The SNP probably have plans to hand the courts the same kind of powers. 

[Detournement]

50 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

How do you prove who whistled?

You've just answered it.

Someone would be guaranteed to crack bexause nobody wants to be suspected of being the perv themselves and also nobody is going to risk losing their job to defend a perv.

If it was my business and my staff, I'd question how I allowed a work atmosphere to develop where my staff felt it was OK to do that sort of thing in the first place.

I doubt you spend much time with tradesman or labourers!

You definitely seen the type to grass after being asked your name though.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Detournement

[Scary Bear]

Has anyone on here ever wolf-whistled anyone?

I’m just wondering what percentage of people do this. Is it exclusively confined to tradesmen and white-van-man types?

I can’t recall the last time I heard anyone wolf-whistling someone. This is possibly because I am not a woman and I haven’t worked on a building site since the ‘90s. 

Who are these people?

[scottsdad]

 

[superbigal]

Plenty of examples of football crowds singing get your tits out for the lads/boys at some opposition supporter or a polis woman.
Imagine a few pandbers guilty of this offence.

BTW I'm only saying this happens.  Not advocating it as my little Red Dots from the usual posters indicate.

Edited July 22, 2021 by superbigal

[scottsdad]

1 minute ago, superbigal said:

Plenty of examples of football crowds singing get your tits out for the lads/boys at some opposition supporter or a polis woman.
Imagine a few pandbers guilty of this offence.

I remember being at (I think) the Recs in Alloa. The fans were chanting "Would you like to see some puppies" to the ball boys. 

[welshbairn]

7 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

I remember being at (I think) the Recs in Alloa. The fans were chanting "Would you like to see some puppies" to the ball boys. 

Fks sake 

[GordonS]

1 hour ago, Scary Bear said:

Has anyone on here ever wolf-whistled anyone?

I’m just wondering what percentage of people do this. Is it exclusively confined to tradesmen and white-van-man types?

I can’t recall the last time I heard anyone wolf-whistling someone. This is possibly because I am not a woman and I haven’t worked on a building site since the ‘90s. 

Who are these people?

I know some senior folk in the construction trade and we talked about this recently. They say the culture on sites is changing fast, partly because there's a growing skills shortage that is starting to hold the industry back and managers know they need to recruit more women. Only 2% of construction apprentices are female. They know they need to change the culture and image as they put the majority of young women off.

[scottsdad]

7 minutes ago, GordonS said:

I know some senior folk in the construction trade and we talked about this recently. They say the culture on sites is changing fast, partly because there's a growing skills shortage that is starting to hold the industry back and managers know they need to recruit more women. Only 2% of construction apprentices are female. They know they need to change the culture and image as they put the majority of young women off.

40% of construction graduates at my uni are female, but I guess training to be a construction manager or quantity surveyor is a different culture than being on site.

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

22 minutes ago, superbigal said:

Plenty of examples of football crowds singing get your tits out for the lads/boys at some opposition supporter or a polis woman.
Imagine a few pandbers guilty of this offence.

I know of at least one poster who bragged about staring at the breasts of the young lassie selling him a pie.

[The Moonster]

34 minutes ago, superbigal said:

Plenty of examples of football crowds singing get your tits out for the lads/boys at some opposition supporter or a polis woman.
Imagine a few pandbers guilty of this offence.

That makes it all fine then if there's plenty of examples of it. The most recent one was Myleen Klasse during the Euros, she seemed to take it in good spirits but I was cringing at the number of " quality man" type shares of that video. The sort of stuff you expect from randy wee school boys. 

[throbber]

It will be a red card offence on all building sites in the U.K. I would imagine and it would be taken very seriously if a member of public went to the site office saying  they’d been whistled at. I’m not sure what men who are doing it are hoping for tbh, I highly doubt there has ever been a case of a guy getting his hole as a direct result of whistling at a stranger in public.

[The Moonster]

2 minutes ago, throbber said:

It will be a red card offence on all building sites in the U.K. I would imagine and it would be taken very seriously if a member of public went to the site office saying  they’d been whistled at.

That might be something that needs to be more widely known in that case. I assume a lot of women won't report it because they fear the site manager is the same type of sleaze ball as the guy whistling. 

[jimbaxters]

This thread, like so many others, is going a bit far.

100% agree that wolf whistling, comments etc are not on but don't start telling me we're not allowed to look at women now.

Edited July 22, 2021 by jimbaxters