Criminalizing Cat Calling/Wolf Whistling

[welshbairn]

2 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

There's a whole spectrum of offensive and disrespectful comments people can make to each other and you'll find pretty significant disagreement between people about where each different comment fits on that spectrum and where any potential line of criminality should sit on that spectrum.

In all seriousness, I do find it quite difficult to come to a judgement about these things but personally, I tend to come down on the side that we shouldn't be criminalising things people say unless they're verging into harassment or incitement to violence. Even if the things being said are fairly abhorrent.

The fact that you simply can't get agreement between any significantly large group of people on what's actually offensive, never mind offensive enough to be criminal, to me, is a sign that we shouldn't be criminalising this stuff.

Plenty of people are happy to criminalise stuff they don't like but would be unhappy criminalising stuff they think is fine but someone else doesn't like.

There's a difference between shouting or whistling at a total stranger minding their own business, walking down the street, and the hurly burly of life's interactions where it would be impossible and undesirable to legislate for. 

[Les Cabbage]

Anyone who thinks it’s harmless fun is an absolute moron.

I don’t think police should hang around in any specific areas looking for it; 1 because I don’t trust the police and 2 it can happen literally anywhere so what would be the point in that?

I wouldn’t be creating a new offence for it but it should definitely come under sexual harassment.

My girlfriend this deals with it all the time in Glasgow so much so that she changes what she’s wearing if she’s going to be walking anywhere alone because it makes her that uncomfortable.

If the police can afford to shove hundreds of officers at Livingston vs Hibs on a Sunday afternoon in front of 5000 supporters they can spend a bit of time processing fines for weird men being total fucking creeps and making young lassies feel unsafe in the streets.

[Todd_is_God]

6 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

Actually what "Wattoo" said was that in a crowded nightclub when talking to a girl that he knew / was with, had nobody ever pushed their hair back to speak into their ear, it was pretty normal, everyday behaviour for any normal person, however was twisted as being some sort of "sex fiend" by our usual suspects.

It then grew arms and legs and turned in to "stroking their hair" which was never said but of course why let the truth get in the way of a good story as they say..........

I dunno about that tbf

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Actually what "Wattoo" said was that in a crowded nightclub when talking to a girl that he knew / was with, had nobody ever pushed their hair back to speak into their ear, it was pretty normal, everyday behaviour for any normal person, however was twisted as being some sort of "sex fiend" by our usual suspects.
It then grew arms and legs and turned in to "stroking their hair" which was never said but of course why let the truth get in the way of a good story as they say..........

IIRC that's the position you backtracked to, and is still fucking strange. On a wider note, why are you always all over threads about women/harassment like a cheap suit?

[The Moonster]

1 minute ago, WATTOO said:

Have I, Aye ?

Seems you know a lot about me.

Try reading my original post on this subject for my views.

I was assuming, which is why I used the word "probably". I've read your original post once and the only thing you've said is police have more important things to deal with.

Do you think men should be allowed to whistle at women (or other men) they deem attractive without any consequences?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Todd_is_God said:

I dunno about that tbf

That's nothing compared with the legendary "whistling pervert", he used to regularly stalk his prey down at classy joints such as Madness.

I suppose what's missing from all these "discussions" is KYC as not everyone has the same outlooks / moral standards whether it be Guys or Gals so a blanket approach is never going to work.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

I was assuming, which is why I used the word "probably". I've read your original post once and the only thing you've said is police have more important things to deal with.

Do you think men should be allowed to whistle at women (or other men) they deem attractive without any consequences?

In my original post you will note I used the term "idiot" to describe someone who carries out this "whistling" / "cat calling", so i would have assumed that was clear enough given that you know so much about me and my views.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

I was assuming, which is why I used the word "probably". I've read your original post once and the only thing you've said is police have more important things to deal with.

Do you think men should be allowed to whistle at women (or other men) they deem attractive without any consequences?

Do I think that they're idiots / nuisances ? Yes.

Do I think they should be facing a criminal record and court appearance ? No.

[The Derry]

13 minutes ago, Les Cabbage said:

Anyone who thinks it’s harmless fun is an absolute moron.

I don’t think police should hang around in any specific areas looking for it; 1 because I don’t trust the police and 2 it can happen literally anywhere so what would be the point in that?

I wouldn’t be creating a new offence for it but it should definitely come under sexual harassment.

My girlfriend this deals with it all the time in Glasgow so much so that she changes what she’s wearing if she’s going to be walking anywhere alone because it makes her that uncomfortable.

If the police can afford to shove hundreds of officers at Livingston vs Hibs on a Sunday afternoon in front of 5000 supporters they can spend a bit of time processing fines for weird men being total fucking creeps and making young lassies feel unsafe in the streets.

 

Subtle brag imo

[The Moonster]

2 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

In my original post you will note I used the term "idiot" to describe someone who carries out this "whistling" / "cat calling", so i would have assumed that was clear enough given that you know so much about me and my views.

You used the term "odd idiot" but it's already been established it's not really the odd person doing it, some folk deal with this every single day, so many people experience it that we're having a discussion at national level on it. You also said that police should be concentrating on "real crimes" which suggests to me that you don't see this harassment as a real issue and women should just deal with it themselves. 

1 minute ago, WATTOO said:

Do I think they should be facing a criminal record and court appearance ? No.

Why not?

[Empty It]

Anybody justifying it because someone is older is an arsehole aswell, just makes them an old perv instead of a regular perv.

[Gordon EF]

18 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

There's a difference between shouting or whistling at a total stranger minding their own business, walking down the street, and the hurly burly of life's interactions where it would be impossible and undesirable to legislate for. 

Well that completely depends on what you define as "the hurly burly of life's interactions". Which is part of the whole problem. You're talking about a fairly undefined nebulous group of legally acceptable offensive or disrespectful interactions. There are plenty of people who put cat calling in there. There are people who'd criminalise some of the things you'd find acceptable. On what basis are you drawing the dividing line between legally acceptable and legally unacceptable? How could we come up with some guide in the future for what type of offensive stuff should be legal and what shouldn't?

[Detournement]

If there are multiple guys on a site how are they going to prove which one whistled?

 

 

[Gordon EF]

1 minute ago, Detournement said:

If there are multiple guys on a site how are they going to prove which one whistled?

 

 

Arrest all of them.

[welshbairn]

7 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

Well that completely depends on what you define as "the hurly burly of life's interactions". Which is part of the whole problem. You're talking about a fairly undefined nebulous group of legally acceptable offensive or disrespectful interactions. There are plenty of people who put cat calling in there. There are people who'd criminalise some of the things you'd find acceptable. On what basis are you drawing the dividing line between legally acceptable and legally unacceptable? How could we come up with some guide in the future for what type of offensive stuff should be legal and what shouldn't?

I don't think it would be too difficult to codify in law, just replace a few words.

Quote

 Racial harassment is unwanted conduct on grounds of race or ethnic or national origins, which violates your dignity or creates an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment for you.

 

[Newbornbairn]

I think it would be more useful to hear women's opinions on this, the women on this board. 

[Granny Danger]

If we’re going to change moronic behaviour it will probably have to be a combination of education and some idiots getting prosecuted.

Younger people do tend to be more aware that behaviour such as this is not acceptable and I hope that doesn’t change as they grow older.

[Gordon EF]

3 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I don't think it would be too difficult to codify in law, just replace a few words.

 

I'm not taking issue with how you would word a law. It's pretty easy to come up with a definition for anything. I'm asking how we would decide which types of offensive comments would be criminalised and which wouldn't.

[strichener]

If it gets the women to stop whistling at me then I'm all for it.  

[Todd_is_God]

37 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

That's nothing compared with the legendary "whistling pervert", he used to regularly stalk his prey down at classy joints such as Madness.

I suppose what's missing from all these "discussions" is KYC as not everyone has the same outlooks / moral standards whether it be Guys or Gals so a blanket approach is never going to work.

Whilst I agree, one thing being more weird  doesn't make something else normal.

It's not that weird, but it's absolutely not

"pretty normal, everyday behaviour for any normal person"