Gordon EF Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said: 'Offensive' is a red herring. We can not like things, without being deeply hurt or offended by them. True. I'm not trying to say you guys are actually offended by this. I'm just trying to point out that there's a difference between things that are deliberate or knowingly offensive or insensitive and things that tangentially cause upset. For example, if a comedian is making jokes about dead babies, that's clearly deliberately insensitive at least. If a comedian makes a joke about their baby and someone gets upset because they lost a child and it brings back memories of it, that's not really an insensitivity on the comedian's part. I think the whole 'Saka train meme' thing is far more similar to the latter scenario and it does strike me as a bit Lovejoyish to complain about it. Edited July 15, 2021 by Gordon EF 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 2 minutes ago, Gordon EF said: True. I'm not trying to say you guys are actually offended by this. I'm just trying to point out that there's a difference between things that are deliberate or knowingly offensive or insensitive and things that tangentially cause upset. For example, if a comedian is making jokes about dead babies, that's clearly deliberately insensitive at least. If a comedian makes a joke about their baby and someone gets upset because they lost a child and it brings back memories of it, that's not really an insensitivity on the comedian's part. I think the whole 'Saka train meme' thing is far more similar to the latter scenario and it does strike be as a bit Lovejoyish to complain about it. Yip point taken. I've really got no intention of becoming too animated over this - I don't feel particularly invested in it either way. Your analogy has limited success here though. The image of a man stepping into the path of a train, has a more than tangential relationship with people stepping into the paths of trains. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 1 minute ago, Monkey Tennis said: Yip point taken. I've really got no intention of becoming too animated over this - I don't feel particularly invested in it either way. Your analogy has limited success here though. The image of a man stepping into the path of a train, has a more than tangential relationship with people stepping into the paths of trains. I think the point still stands. How precisely any potential reference matches any potential and unknown real-life event isn't really the point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanius Mullarkey Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 Racist food now. Disgusting. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewan14 Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 30 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said: Of course not. I'd be surprised if there's many meme-makers (memewrights? memesmiths?) old enough to really have taken notice of Enke's suicide at the time. I made the connection, but wouldn't say I was offended. Just noticing that everyone is jumping to the race angle, when the only racist bit I've seen over this foul wasn't in any of the many memes and gifs doing the rounds - rather, it was in the (apparently serious) attempt by some loon trying to get a petition up to replay the final. So, I found the portrayal of the train gif/meme to be in bad taste, but I understand why others wouldn't know. I find the immediate jump by many to frame this in terms of race lazy and, yes, offensive. And I foulnd the petition for the replay sad, offensive, and pretty damn funny (if serious, still a better gag (without the slave comment)if its fake. Missing such an important penalty cannot be good for one s well being. Relatively recently Don Masson released his book , and his failure against Peru was still a large topic of conversation 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genuine Hibs Fan Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 3 minutes ago, Melanius Mullarkey said: Racist food now. Disgusting. *Incredibly Kent voice* "I see they're not naming their shawarma after some famous Muslim, seems it's one rule for indigenous Brits like are Piers and another for" *garbled noises as dragged off stage by the woke police 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanius Mullarkey Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 1 minute ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said: *Incredibly Kent voice* "I see they're not naming their shawarma after some famous Muslim, seems it's one rule for indigenous Brits like are Piers and another for" *garbled noises as dragged off stage by the woke police They could have served it on shook and called it the Abu Hamza. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Brightside Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 I'd just like to add about the train thing, from what I could see on Twitter, nobody seemed upset at the train gif, it seemed as though there was some sort of inferred racism. Also when you consider what was mentioned in that petition I think that is the "offended" angle people have been taking. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
well fan for life Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 7 hours ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said: That guy is my new favourite England fan. Being filmed snorting coke to rapturous cheers, sticking a flare up your arse, getting in the stadium without a ticket and then trying to make out what was happening through 3 grams and 20 cans, without feeling a jot of shame. Some boy You've got to say fair play to someone that can go on that size of a publicly documented bender and not even have an inkling of the fear afterwards. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 50 minutes ago, Gordon EF said: I think the point still stands. How precisely any potential reference matches any potential and unknown real-life event isn't really the point. A couple of actual real life events have been cited though. That the image evoked those for some of us, made us uneasy with them. That's all anyone is saying. If the pictures showed Saka holding a gun to his head, that might have caused you discomfort - I don't know. We all draw lines and, unsurprisingly, we don't all draw them in identical places. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19QOS19 Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 A couple of actual real life events have been cited though. That the image evoked those for some of us, made us uneasy with them. That's all anyone is saying. If the pictures showed Saka holding a gun to his head, that might have caused you discomfort - I don't know. We all draw lines and, unsurprisingly, we don't all draw them in identical places.A gun to the head is a violent act though. Saka being stopped from running in front of an oncoming train isn't the same thing. It was to show Chiellini as a hero, not the thug the some English supporters are portraying him as. If the gif was Saka lying with his head on the track I'd possibly find it a bit unsettling as that's a completely different take. But as it is it doesn't suggest suicide in that gif. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 2 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said: A gun to the head is a violent act though. Saka being stopped from running in front of an oncoming train isn't the same thing. It was to show Chiellini as a hero, not the thug the some English supporters are portraying him as. If the gif was Saka lying with his head on the track I'd possibly find it a bit unsettling as that's a completely different take. But as it is it doesn't suggest suicide in that gif. As I said, we all have lines. It's no surprise that they plot slightly different paths. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt n Vinegar Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 1 hour ago, well fan for life said: You've got to say fair play to someone that can go on that size of a publicly documented bender and not even have an inkling of the fear afterwards. A fine example of the kind of sound chap that Boris is relying on to demonstrate good sense and judgement to help reduce the spread of covid. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 Why not just enjoy this entirely race-free incident instead? (Unless, of course, "floppy haired diva" is a race?) One of the top players in the world surely?[emoji1787] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergie's no1 fan Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 Personally I find the whole thing a bit patronising towards Saka. Anyone seeking a race angle in this has him as skin colour first, footballer second. Chiellini has been iconic this tournament, and for years in general as being the rough and tumble defender who, in the stereotypical Italian mould, will do stuff like that when needed. Everything about that foul was everything people live about Chiellini, a man who has been front and centre of the tournament from the opening game. I see it exactly the same as the Marshall memes after he let in that goal. I would question anyone's motives if they were to bring race into it, the image is pretty iconic, for me it shows Chiellini's will to win at any cost, he didn't give it a 2nd thought when he pulled Saka back. Got f**k all to do with Saka's skin colour imo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalfCutNinja Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 YYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 Is this going to go on until England don't win another tournament? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalfCutNinja Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 5 minutes ago, BFTD said: Is this going to go on until England don't win another tournament? None of us are gonna live that long 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewan14 Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 1 hour ago, sergie's no1 fan said: I see it exactly the same as the Marshall memes after he let in that goal. I would question anyone's motives if they were to bring race into it, the image is pretty iconic, for me it shows Chiellini's willingness to cheat to win at any cost, he didn't give it a 2nd thought when he pulled Saka back. Got f**k all to do with Saka's skin colour imo. FTFY 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted July 15, 2021 Share Posted July 15, 2021 Catching up on this thread, and knew as soon as I seen the train gif post that Monkey Tennis would be all over it, and the rest of the thread would just be him preaching. Skipped to the last page and seems like I got that right. Dearie me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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