Genuine Hibs Fan Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 1 minute ago, pandarilla said: No-one (including Lee) criticised about this at the time. Lee discussing it was much more recent, and both comedians have apologised for the joke. Context matters. I don't think that Lee clearly not feeling comfortable making a fuss about it at the time given how he's since spoken about how he felt about it helps your argument. What do you even mean specifically when you say context matters here? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mizfit Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 UEFA has launched a disciplinary investigation into actions of fans in and around Wembley at the Euro 2020 final between England and Italy.The Football Association has also been hit with four charges for the invasion of the field by an England supporter, throwing of objects by supporters, disturbance during the Italian national anthem and lighting of fireworks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 9 minutes ago, pandarilla said: No-one (including Lee) criticised about this at the time. Lee discussing it was much more recent, and both comedians have apologised for the joke. Context matters. Again tho, it’s like Henry said - those voices weren’t amplified at that time. If I’d made a joke about ‘David Baddiel being able to get a gig despite being as funny as AIDS is the firm proof Jews control the media’ in 1996 I’d have been pulled up for it same as now, and rightly so. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 I don't think that Lee clearly not feeling comfortable making a fuss about it at the time given how he's since spoken about how he felt about it helps your argument. What do you even mean specifically when you say context matters here? My argument is that they shouldn't be 'cancelled' - which was the original mention here.Context matters, as for me there was no intention of racism in the joke. In the mid 90s, the damaging effect of blackface was not something that was widely discussed or known about.The intention behind the joke really does matter. But due to the change in our society (which i fully support), anyone making a similar blackface joke today could not use that excuse. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binos Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 4 minutes ago, carpetmonster said: Again tho, it’s like Henry said - those voices weren’t amplified at that time. If I’d made a joke about ‘David Baddiel being able to get a gig despite being as funny as AIDS is the firm proof Jews control the media’ in 1996 I’d have been pulled up for it same as now, and rightly so. Chris Morris on brass Eye included sketches about good aids which was nothing more than a cold and bad aids which killed you dead Was lauded universally 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewan14 Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 3 hours ago, Jimi Shandrix said: When I was 28, I was probably that person but I'm 48 now. There are just a lot more things that are vastly more important than whether my local rivals lose a game of football now. Middle age is a terrible thing ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukDukGoose Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 Just my opinion but it's not like Baddiel and Skinner have doubled down. As far as I am aware they've acknowledged it was wrong publicly. They've owned it. It was racist in 1996. It was wrong in1996. I don't think they should be cancelled for it though. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 UEFA has launched a disciplinary investigation into actions of fans in and around Wembley at the Euro 2020 final between England and Italy.The Football Association has also been hit with four charges for the invasion of the field by an England supporter, throwing of objects by supporters, disturbance during the Italian national anthem and lighting of fireworks.It'll be interesting to see how seriously uefa come down on the fa.I have sympathy with them regarding the booing of the anthem and the fireworks. But they should rightly be hammered for the disturbances relating to getting into the ground. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 Just my opinion but it's not like Baddiel and Skinner have doubled down. As far as I am aware they've acknowledged it was wrong publicly. They've owned it. It was racist in 1996. It was wrong in1996. I don't think they should be cancelled for it though. Judging people in history by modern standards is a horrendous road to go down.Literally no-one comes out of it with a clean reputation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 6 minutes ago, Binos said: Chris Morris on brass Eye included sketches about good aids which was nothing more than a cold and bad aids which killed you dead Was lauded universally Chris Morris is, famously, a satirist. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 7 minutes ago, pandarilla said: My argument is that they shouldn't be 'cancelled' - which was the original mention here. Context matters, as for me there was no intention of racism in the joke. In the mid 90s, the damaging effect of blackface was not something that was widely discussed or known about. The intention behind the joke really does matter. But due to the change in our society (which i fully support), anyone making a similar blackface joke today could not use that excuse. I don’t know seeing as I was 2 when it happened, but what was the intention behind the joke of ‘blacking up and sticking a pineapple on his head’? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, pandarilla said: Judging people in history by modern standards is a horrendous road to go down. Literally no-one comes out of it with a clean reputation. Racism is not a modern standard. Bernard Manning is no more abhorrent now than he was then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genuine Hibs Fan Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, pandarilla said: My argument is that they shouldn't be 'cancelled' - which was the original mention here. Context matters, as for me there was no intention of racism in the joke. In the mid 90s, the damaging effect of blackface was not something that was widely discussed or known about. The intention behind the joke really does matter. But due to the change in our society (which i fully support), anyone making a similar blackface joke today could not use that excuse. Ah well we agree on that at least. I don't think he should be cancelled either, despite being a pretty obnoxious guy. He has acknowledged the sketches were racist and apologized (although not speaking to Lee himself is hilariously cowardly imo, given how personal it was). My point was in response to your reaction, As a viewer it was clear to me that they weren't making some sort of racist joke. Well sorry you were wrong to think that. Lee (and I'm sure many other people effected) felt it was racist at the time, the comedians have admitted to it being racist and apologized for it. The intention behind the joke does really matter, you're right. But the intention was to mock and deride a man, in a massive part using his race to do so. That's a pretty clearly racist thing to do, whether attitudes to blackface were a bit different at that time or not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binos Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 7 minutes ago, carpetmonster said: Chris Morris is, famously, a satirist. Who's show would never be aired now -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewan14 Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 38 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said: Glad to hear that going on telly in blackface with a pineapple on your head for a hilarious impression, causing the player to face specific abuse throughout the rest of his career, and never apologizing to the person in question while setting yourself up as a moral arbiter on racism, was not racist because it was in 1996. One of them might have known better considering he is of a minority 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, pandarilla said: It'll be interesting to see how seriously uefa come down on the fa. I have sympathy with them regarding the booing of the anthem and the fireworks. But they should rightly be hammered for the disturbances relating to getting into the ground. Hungary have to play behind closed gates for the next 3 home games, I'd expect England to get more, given reports on the treatment Italian fans got and a load of ticketless fans barging into the VIP seating. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalfCutNinja Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 3 hours ago, SANTAN said: You don't get a trophy for 2nd place at International tournaments, I'll remember it fondly though, how will you remember your teams performance? Now that's incredibly lazy from yourself. I expect at last one bigot and one wee man next time. I'm great, watching 4 in bed and I had pringles for breakfast, currently having PnB diddies for brunch x When your idols become your rivals. Not half as fondly as I will.... YYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, Binos said: Who's show would never be aired now Given the sketch was a dig at homophobia, hopefully it wouldn’t need to be. Again tho, that’s down to the gay community’s voice being accepted and lifted into the mainstream. Edited July 13, 2021 by carpetmonster 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binos Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 Just now, carpetmonster said: Given the sketch was a dig at homophobia, hopefully it wouldn’t need to be. So homophobia doesn't exist now 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANTAN Posted July 13, 2021 Share Posted July 13, 2021 Just now, HalfCutNinja said: Not half as fondly as I will.... YYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS Are you Italian or something like? I think you've got an issue with your keyboard.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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