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Scottish Cup 2021/22


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45 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

The same thing happens to clubs from time to time if they change the legal vehicle they operate under. Annan Athletic incorporated a year ago. Brechin City did so in the summer. Are people dancing up and down claiming they aren't the same club?

They didn't go bust first but the legality of membership transfer is the same.

Right, you've totally misunderstood the situations, I see.

If Brechin City or Annan Athletic went into liquidation as incorporated companies that would of course mean the end of the current club.

Just like happened to old Rangers.

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8 hours ago, craigkillie said:

I wrote a blog back in 2012 (when the fate of Rangers wasn't yet known) where I explained my take on all of this from a football statistician's point of view. Basically, in the absence of any actual rules around this, for me it boils down to two things, continuity of membership and will of the supporters. I think you need to have both of these things in order to be considered the same club - one isn't enough.

https://splstats.wordpress.com/2012/06/24/liquidation-and-relocation-in-scottish-football-and-how-to-deal-with-the-history/

For me, Rangers meet both criteria, since they retained their SFA membership and the supporters still think it's the same club. Therefore I feel I have to include them as being the same club as pre-2012.

Clydebank have the will of the support, but not the membership. Obviously there have been four Clydebank FCs, all of whom roughly represent the same town and the same people. However, the Clydebank which departed in 2002 were essentially taken over by Airdrie. At that point, for me, they cannot be the same club, even if the supporters treat them as such. Clearly Airdrie didn't want the history of the old Clydebank either, so the club essentially ceases to exist. Similarly, the new Airdrie cannot inherit the history of the old Airdrie because the old Airdrie went out of business.

The same is true of Meadowbank Thistle becoming Livingston - they inherited the membership but made no claim on the history of the club, so as far as I see it Meadowbank died in 1995 and Livingston were founded in the same year.

Fortunately I won't have to go into this again on the SFA stuff, since Clydebank will be in the Scottish Cup every year going forward and I can just refer to results from this season onwards.

If you consider the crooked dealings of the scumdrie buyout where the fans raised the capital to buy the club and a last minute bid which was magically just higher than Clydebanks went in. Our fans did everything they could to retain the entity, we were never liquidated (indeed we actually turned a small profit in 2001-2002). The name of the club and the IP was exchanged by the arseholes behind AU to the directors of Clydebank at that point, a season in abeyance occurred where we applied to join the highest level of football which was open to application at that stage. You can assess on whatever criteria you want, but its the same entity to every single Clydebank fan and tbh that’s all that matters. 

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So that's the premier cup in Scotland underway and unless you had a vested interest in the teams competing you wouldn't have known it had started, at least where the BBC's pitiful (even non-existent coverage) is concerned.

I know no-one should be surprised any more, but given everything (return of fans, more and more teams getting in via licensing, biggest ever first round draw for a while etc) you would have thought the Beeb might have at least tried (other than the live game on Monday, which in itself is a joke of a decision on their part).  But, tonight, no score updates, no preview of Saturday's games on the website, not a dickie bird.

If it had been down south they would have been all over this, a preview of some of the interesting ties, a little bit of background to some of the teams competing, a live (even if online) game from tonight, tomorrow and A.N other, and so much more.

I know things have changed with the way television coverage is and was, but going back (and there are clips on Youtube to prove this) but in the past Sportscene would have had a 'Road to Hampden' show packed with highlights of all the rounds (the fact they had extended highlights of Ross County v St Cuthberts proves that, even if it had the ignominy of Chick Young's involvement...)

Nowadays it just feels as if, unless Rangers and Celtic are involved, they couldn't give a shit.

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3 minutes ago, GroundskeeperWillie said:

So that's the premier cup in Scotland underway and unless you had a vested interest in the teams competing you wouldn't have known it had started, at least where the BBC's pitiful (even non-existent coverage) is concerned.

I know no-one should be surprised any more, but given everything (return of fans, more and more teams getting in via licensing, biggest ever first round draw for a while etc) you would have thought the Beeb might have at least tried (other than the live game on Monday, which in itself is a joke of a decision on their part).  But, tonight, no score updates, no preview of Saturday's games on the website, not a dickie bird.

If it had been down south they would have been all over this, a preview of some of the interesting ties, a little bit of background to some of the teams competing, a live (even if online) game from tonight, tomorrow and A.N other, and so much more.

I know things have changed with the way television coverage is and was, but going back (and there are clips on Youtube to prove this) but in the past Sportscene would have had a 'Road to Hampden' show packed with highlights of all the rounds (the fact they had extended highlights of Ross County v St Cuthberts proves that, even if it had the ignominy of Chick Young's involvement...)

Nowadays it just feels as if, unless Rangers and Celtic are involved, they couldn't give a shit.

They're showing Berwick v Gretna, but aye, this should be a big feel good story. Biggest entry since 1694 or whatever.

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1 minute ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

They're showing Berwick v Gretna, but aye, this should be a big feel good story. Biggest entry since 1694 or whatever.

As I said, even that choice felt a bit bizarre given the games they could have gone for (albeit I understand they were told to bolt by some clubs when they were told it was a Monday night fixture).  Even a half-arsed approach from the Beeb would be better than a cannae be arsed approach (the Scottish Cup twitter feed at least shows how it should be done)

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7 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

The same thing happens to clubs from time to time if they change the legal vehicle they operate under. Annan Athletic incorporated a year ago. Brechin City did so in the summer. Are people dancing up and down claiming they aren't the same club?

They didn't go bust first but the legality of membership transfer is the same.

The SFA rules allow for the transfer of membership in the event of a solvent reconstruction as was the case with Annan and Brechin, but not RFC plc.

14. PROHIBITION ON TRANSFER OF MEMBERSHIP

14.1 It is not permissible for a member to transfer directly or indirectly its membership of the Scottish FA to another member or to any other entity, and any such transfer or attempt to effect such a transfer is prohibited, save as otherwise provided in this Article 14. Any member desirous of transferring its membership to another entity within its own administrative group for the purpose of internal solvent reconstruction must apply to the Board for permission to effect such transfer, such consent not to be unreasonably withheld or delayed. Any other application for transfer of membership will be reviewed by the Board, which will have complete discretion to reject or to grant such application on such terms and conditions as the Board may think fit. 

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11 hours ago, craigkillie said:

I wrote a blog back in 2012 (when the fate of Rangers wasn't yet known) where I explained my take on all of this from a football statistician's point of view. Basically, in the absence of any actual rules around this, for me it boils down to two things, continuity of membership and will of the supporters. I think you need to have both of these things in order to be considered the same club - one isn't enough.

https://splstats.wordpress.com/2012/06/24/liquidation-and-relocation-in-scottish-football-and-how-to-deal-with-the-history/

For me, Rangers meet both criteria, since they retained their SFA membership and the supporters still think it's the same club. Therefore I feel I have to include them as being the same club as pre-2012.

Clydebank have the will of the support, but not the membership. Obviously there have been four Clydebank FCs, all of whom roughly represent the same town and the same people. However, the Clydebank which departed in 2002 were essentially taken over by Airdrie. At that point, for me, they cannot be the same club, even if the supporters treat them as such. Clearly Airdrie didn't want the history of the old Clydebank either, so the club essentially ceases to exist. Similarly, the new Airdrie cannot inherit the history of the old Airdrie because the old Airdrie went out of business.

The same is true of Meadowbank Thistle becoming Livingston - they inherited the membership but made no claim on the history of the club, so as far as I see it Meadowbank died in 1995 and Livingston were founded in the same year.

Fortunately I won't have to go into this again on the SFA stuff, since Clydebank will be in the Scottish Cup every year going forward and I can just refer to results from this season onwards.

Fortunately we ( hopefully) won't also have to read a prissy little justification of a f**k-up by yourself and we can all crack happily onwards. 

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19 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

Having lost preceding games 4-1, 8-0 and 10-3... tonight Fort William were somehow managing to hold East Stirlingshire... conceded on stroke of HT.

Surprisingly cosmopolitan squad there these days:

 

 

Attended the match last night. Totally blind to Fort's recent form.  Like many cup tie's it was all about the first goal.  As soon as it went in it was straightforward for East Stirlingshire. 

Has there been some investment in Fort William, with all the TV interest due to their awful winless run?

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