Scottish Cup 2021/22

[TheScarf]

21 minutes ago, theoriginalhedge said:

It might help wake some of them up from their mundane complacency .

Yep, there’s a couple of League One clubs who I can see in the LL in 5 or so years.

[DiegoDiego]

Half the clubs in the SPFL will be non league in 10-15 years time. 

Can't see 21 being relegated in fifteen years (and none coming back up) regardless of ability.

[TheScarf]

1 minute ago, DiegoDiego said:

16 hours ago, TheScarf said:

Half the clubs in the SPFL will be non league in 10-15 years time. 

Can't see 21 being relegated in fifteen years (and none coming back up) regardless of ability.

Yeah, I didn’t literally mean half the SPFL, but you know that.

[eez-eh]

There’s got be more reconstruction planned with changes to the promotion/relegation places from League 2 down, surely? Must be pish playing in 16-18 team leagues where 1st place has to the jump through 2 or 3 play-off rounds to get promoted and 2nd place gets f**k all.

Edit - not the topic for it I realise. Just thinking out loud.

Edited November 28, 2021 by eez-eh

[LongTimeLurker]

17 hours ago, TheScarf said:

Half the clubs in the SPFL will be non league in 10-15 years time. 

That's only possible if there's a rule change on how many clubs can go down each season but agree there is going to be a lot of turnover on this especially if the top WoS premier clubs fully commit to the concept of moving up into the national divisions as appears to be happening. Clubs like Talbot, Darvel, Irvine Meadow, Kilwinning Rangers and in the not too distant future Pollok putting floodlights up was the litmus test on that.

The league structure of Scottish football has always been distorted by having strong local regional leagues that had clubs that drew bigger crowds and had higher quality teams than a significant portion of the part-time clubs in the national divisions. Next season there will be several more top WoS clubs in the Scottish Cup to provide a reality check on that if all goes well with the club licensing process over the next couple of months.

Edited November 28, 2021 by LongTimeLurker

[DiegoDiego]

Yeah, I didn’t literally mean half the SPFL, but you know that.

I genuinely didn't. People have said stupider things on here and been serious.

[glasgow-sheep]

I did this last round so here's a look at how the teams shape up in terms of the rankings: http://scotscores.theroonba.com/clubrank/clubrank.html
These were fairly accurate last time, with only one real upset. Games listed here as draws are basically "close" and could go slightly one way when you factor in more points for home advantage. Will be fascinating to see how the inter-division clashes go.

			Home	Away	Gap
Partick Thistle	v	Dunfermline Athletic	3324	3172	152	Home
Kelty Hearts	v	Montrose	3133	3148	-15	Draw
Dumbarton	v	Sauchie Juniors	2925	2695	230	Home
Auchinleck Talbot	v	Hamilton Academical	3156	3116	40	Draw
Civil Service Strollers	v	Peterhead	2776	3014	-238	Away
Falkirk	v	Raith Rovers	3068	3330	-262	Away
Stirling Albion	v	Tranent Juniors	2946	2924	22	Draw
Clydebank	v	Clyde	2943	2940	3	Draw
Dalbeattie Star	v	East Kilbride	2617	2862	-245	Away
Alloa Athletic	v	Bonnyrigg Rose Athletic	3024	3011	13	Draw
Ayr United	v	Albion Rovers	3109	2895	214	Home
Stenhousemuir	v	Airdrieonians	2911	3106	-195	Away
Queen's Park	v	Kilmarnock	3081	3328	-247	Away
Gala Fairydean Rovers	v	Annan Athletic	2688	2877	-189	Away
Inverness Caledonian Thistle	v	Greenock Morton	3276	3170	106	Home
Lothian Thistle Hutchison Vale	v	Edinburgh City	2569	2923	-354	Away
Banks O' Dee	v	East Fife	2905	2907	-2	Draw
Cove Rangers	v	Queen of the South	3167	3153	14	Draw
Arbroath	v	Forfar Athletic	3322	3011	311	Home
Brechin City	v	Darvel	2820	2987	-167	Away

 

It's probably obvious but can't see on the website how the points are allocated to determine the rankings

[Ranaldo Bairn]

5 minutes ago, glasgow-sheep said:

On 22/11/2021 at 19:10, Ginaro said:

I did this last round so here's a look at how the teams shape up in terms of the rankings: http://scotscores.theroonba.com/clubrank/clubrank.html
These were fairly accurate last time, with only one real upset. Games listed here as draws are basically "close" and could go slightly one way when you factor in more points for home advantage. Will be fascinating to see how the inter-division clashes go.

			Home	Away	Gap
Partick Thistle	v	Dunfermline Athletic	3324	3172	152	Home
Kelty Hearts	v	Montrose	3133	3148	-15	Draw
Dumbarton	v	Sauchie Juniors	2925	2695	230	Home
Auchinleck Talbot	v	Hamilton Academical	3156	3116	40	Draw
Civil Service Strollers	v	Peterhead	2776	3014	-238	Away
Falkirk	v	Raith Rovers	3068	3330	-262	Away
Stirling Albion	v	Tranent Juniors	2946	2924	22	Draw
Clydebank	v	Clyde	2943	2940	3	Draw
Dalbeattie Star	v	East Kilbride	2617	2862	-245	Away
Alloa Athletic	v	Bonnyrigg Rose Athletic	3024	3011	13	Draw
Ayr United	v	Albion Rovers	3109	2895	214	Home
Stenhousemuir	v	Airdrieonians	2911	3106	-195	Away
Queen's Park	v	Kilmarnock	3081	3328	-247	Away
Gala Fairydean Rovers	v	Annan Athletic	2688	2877	-189	Away
Inverness Caledonian Thistle	v	Greenock Morton	3276	3170	106	Home
Lothian Thistle Hutchison Vale	v	Edinburgh City	2569	2923	-354	Away
Banks O' Dee	v	East Fife	2905	2907	-2	Draw
Cove Rangers	v	Queen of the South	3167	3153	14	Draw
Arbroath	v	Forfar Athletic	3322	3011	311	Home
Brechin City	v	Darvel	2820	2987	-167	Away

 

It's probably obvious but can't see on the website how the points are allocated to determine the rankings

Indeed. The one thing that's vital to any visitor to his website, and he's cocked it.

[AsimButtHitsASix]

10 minutes ago, glasgow-sheep said:

On 22/11/2021 at 19:10, Ginaro said:

I did this last round so here's a look at how the teams shape up in terms of the rankings: http://scotscores.theroonba.com/clubrank/clubrank.html
These were fairly accurate last time, with only one real upset. Games listed here as draws are basically "close" and could go slightly one way when you factor in more points for home advantage. Will be fascinating to see how the inter-division clashes go.

			Home	Away	Gap
Partick Thistle	v	Dunfermline Athletic	3324	3172	152	Home
Kelty Hearts	v	Montrose	3133	3148	-15	Draw
Dumbarton	v	Sauchie Juniors	2925	2695	230	Home
Auchinleck Talbot	v	Hamilton Academical	3156	3116	40	Draw
Civil Service Strollers	v	Peterhead	2776	3014	-238	Away
Falkirk	v	Raith Rovers	3068	3330	-262	Away
Stirling Albion	v	Tranent Juniors	2946	2924	22	Draw
Clydebank	v	Clyde	2943	2940	3	Draw
Dalbeattie Star	v	East Kilbride	2617	2862	-245	Away
Alloa Athletic	v	Bonnyrigg Rose Athletic	3024	3011	13	Draw
Ayr United	v	Albion Rovers	3109	2895	214	Home
Stenhousemuir	v	Airdrieonians	2911	3106	-195	Away
Queen's Park	v	Kilmarnock	3081	3328	-247	Away
Gala Fairydean Rovers	v	Annan Athletic	2688	2877	-189	Away
Inverness Caledonian Thistle	v	Greenock Morton	3276	3170	106	Home
Lothian Thistle Hutchison Vale	v	Edinburgh City	2569	2923	-354	Away
Banks O' Dee	v	East Fife	2905	2907	-2	Draw
Cove Rangers	v	Queen of the South	3167	3153	14	Draw
Arbroath	v	Forfar Athletic	3322	3011	311	Home
Brechin City	v	Darvel	2820	2987	-167	Away

 

It's probably obvious but can't see on the website how the points are allocated to determine the rankings

He has posted about it on here, can't be arsed finding it, but the ELO system is pretty well known. The minor point scorings about how the games are weighted specifically might be useful but it's a bit subjective as well. Maybe he doesn't want the hassle of folk arguing the Junior Cup is more important than the SoS league or whatever.

[DiegoDiego]

the ELO system

It's a PTTGOMN, but Elo is the name of the guy who came up with it (or Élö if you want to be precise), capitalising it is weird.

[Ginaro]

16 minutes ago, glasgow-sheep said:

It's probably obvious but can't see on the website how the points are allocated to determine the rankings

10 minutes ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

Indeed. The one thing that's vital to any visitor to his website, and he's cocked it.

4 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

He has posted about it on here, can't be arsed finding it, but the ELO system is pretty well known. The minor point scorings about how the games are weighted specifically might be useful but it's a bit subjective as well. Maybe he doesn't want the hassle of folk arguing the Junior Cup is more important than the SoS league or whatever.

The thread where it was first posted is linked below. He posted on the second page about making some tweaks to it. 

Takes into account home advantage, margin of victory, whether it's the league or cup, relative strengths of each team etc. 

Obviously difficult to say where non-league clubs are relative to the SPFL, but it's probably the best attempt at ranking all senior clubs you're going to get. 

 

[Ranaldo Bairn]

OK thanks, I'll have a look.

The point still stands about his site though.

[mrman2011]

What a wonderful competition. Magic 

[Dev]

On 21/11/2021 at 12:13, BANKIEBILL said:

£9500 for R3 and £19500 for R4 ... wasn't really thinking much further tbh

Time for clubs involved in R4 to have half an eye on possible R5 exit. Any idea of the exit figures for these later rounds? R5:      R6:   

Great that clubs such as Talbot, Banks O'Dee, Clydebank and Darvel/Brechin can have hopes for more progress - Annan too! Not forgetting East Kilbride.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Dev
.

[Ginaro]

As things stand Talbot v Hearts will be the biggest gap since the pyramid began, at 58 places.

[Ross.]

6 hours ago, Dev said:

Time for clubs involved in R4 to have half an eye on possible R5 exit. Any idea of the exit figures for these later rounds? R5:      R6:   

Great that clubs such as Talbot, Banks O'Dee, Clydebank and Darvel/Brechin can have hopes for more progress - Annan too! 

A bit anti climactic for us. Was really hoping for a big name this time. As much as it is winnable, it’s still a difficult tie too.

[vikingTON]

On 28/11/2021 at 11:28, eez-eh said:

There’s got be more reconstruction planned with changes to the promotion/relegation places from League 2 down, surely? Must be pish playing in 16-18 team leagues where 1st place has to the jump through 2 or 3 play-off rounds to get promoted and 2nd place gets f**k all.

There should be no change while the LL is a joke setup consisting of 'Broomhill', Vale of Leithen and vile Old Firm B sides, and the HL is made up crap Aberdeenshire outfits with only some Walter Mitty funding pushing one ahead of the pack. The performance of tier 5 in the Scottish Cup has been abysmal this season. 

Once the LL is opened up to tier 6 and is purged of the vile B teams, while the HL is steadily strengthened by the emptying of Fort William, Lossiemouth etc. then a case can be made for opening up entry to the 42. 

[BANKIEBILL]

11 hours ago, Dev said:

Time for clubs involved in R4 to have half an eye on possible R5 exit. Any idea of the exit figures for these later rounds? R5:      R6:   

Great that clubs such as Talbot, Banks O'Dee, Clydebank and Darvel/Brechin can have hopes for more progress - Annan too! Not forgetting East Kilbride.

R5 exit 47250

R6 102000

Semi 177000 

And no I refuse to print any more

[theoriginalhedge]

22 minutes ago, virginton said:

There should be no change while the LL is a joke setup consisting of 'Broomhill', Vale of Leithen and vile Old Firm B sides, and the HL is made up crap Aberdeenshire outfits with only some Walter Mitty funding pushing one ahead of the pack. The performance of tier 5 in the Scottish Cup has been abysmal this season. 

Once the LL is opened up to tier 6 and is purged of the vile B teams, while the HL is steadily strengthened by the emptying of Fort William, Lossiemouth etc. then a case can be made for opening up entry to the 42. 

A very thinly veiled way of saying that there is more chance of hell freezing over than the spfl clubs allowing anything to change . There will always be an element of self preservation based on archaic self entitlement. It doesn't matter who is on the board at any particular time , that same agenda will be pushed . Absolutely nothing has changed since Ken Ferguson came off that board and it appears that nothing will change anytime in the near future. 

It doesn't matter who drops out of the lowland or highland leagues there are always going to be teams who are weaker than others or  go through tougher times for whatever reason. Yes there are consistently poorer teams but what makes them any less ambitious or less worthy than anyone else? The opening of the pyramid will determine a level that these teams will find themselves . If they are good enough they will bounce back. 

 

 

[vikingTON]

6 minutes ago, theoriginalhedge said:

A very thinly veiled way of saying that there is more chance of hell freezing over than the spfl clubs allowing anything to change . There will always be an element of self preservation based on archaic self entitlement. It doesn't matter who is on the board at any particular time , that same agenda will be pushed . Absolutely nothing has changed since Ken Ferguson came off that board and it appears that nothing will change anytime in the near future. 

I think you'll find that the self preservation is at tier 5, where absolute dung outfits like Vale of Leithen and Fort William have to be dragged kicking and screaming out of the league and only if Mercury is in retrograde at the time.

Quote

It doesn't matter who drops out of the lowland or highland leagues there are always going to be teams who are weaker than others or  go through tougher times for whatever reason. Yes there are consistently poorer teams but what makes them any less ambitious or less worthy than anyone else? The opening of the pyramid will determine a level that these teams will find themselves . If they are good enough they will bounce back.

Broomhill and Caledonian Braves are a first team squad without any fans or community to sustain them. Old Firm B teams are a disgrace to the entire game. That's some less worthy teams right there. 

The argument for further opening up the 42 is not convincing right now given that the Lowland and Highland League are not pulling up any trees of their own. I'd give club 42 at least a 40% chance of winning the play-off at the end of this season: more if the Highland League contrives to provide the non-league finalist. 

When there is a backlog of clearly capable clubs at tier 5 level then it is time to reform. The biggest obstacle to that happening though are the self-preservation brigade in the LL and not the big, bad SPFL.