Time to go Steve Clarke

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, Ludo*1 said:

I don't think he should go, but if, as expected, we whimper out of the WC qualification process, then he has to go. 

We have already made a poor start, we can't win games. Dont look like beating anyone but the minnows. Whats the point in writing off yet another campaign. And probably half of the next euro qualifying by the time we get round to it.

[craigkillie]

On the whole I thought it was a disappointing and frustrating tournament for us, but for the most part we looked like a team who were certainly not out of our depth at this level, just suffered from some bad decision making, a wee bit of bad luck and a general lack of cutting edge. The absence of Ryan Jack was a massive blow - it left us having to try to totally reshape our midfield, and it didn't work in the first game, then we found something that seemed to work against England only to then lose Gilmour for the last game.

I couldn't disagree more with the post above about other teams being more confident on the ball - the one thing I'd say we've improved massively on under Clarke is our bravery in possession, playing out of tight areas and so on. We were outclassed in that department by Croatia last night, but they have a midfielder who was literally named the best player in the world a couple of years ago. One thing that was noticeable was that the Czechs and Croatia both successfully limited us from getting the ball into the midfield, which forced the defenders to go long at times - that's something we'll need to work on.

I refuse to believe anyone who has sat and watched this team for the last four years has not seen the very obvious progress under Clarke. There are still issues, such as those above, the lack of a good finisher and a bit of a lack of creativity against teams who are roughly at the same level as us, but he has successfully lowered the age profile of the squad substantially, integrated some excellent younger players, and has instilled belief back in the squad and the support. It's almost a completely different squad from Strachan's time in charge - Tierney and Robertson are the only players who started last night from Strachan's last game in charge just under four years ago.

The World Cup qualifiers are the big test for him now. I think we've made a decent but not brilliant start to those, and we still have everything up for grabs in that respect. Denmark are better than us but not so much better than us that we can't beat them, and we've seen nothing from Austria to suggest they can't be beaten. We need to be competitive in that right up until the end - if it fizzles out, which I really don't expect, then that would be the time to ask about his future. However, I have complete confidence we're going to at least get close to qualifying for the World Cup, and then I see absolutely no reason why we won't be at the next Euros.

It's not surprising that folk are lashing out with reactionary nonsense after a raw and difficult defeat last night, but I do think quite a few people have completely lost the run of themselves over the last few months, if they ever had it in the first place.

Edited June 23, 2021 by craigkillie

[George Parr]

6 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

On the whole I thought it was a disappointing and frustrating tournament for us, but for the most part we looked like a team who were certainly not out of our depth at this level, just suffered from some bad decision making, a wee bit of bad luck and a general lack of cutting edge. The absence of Ryan Jack was a massive blow - it left us having to try to totally reshape our midfield, and it didn't work in the first game, then we found something that seemed to work against England only to then lose Gilmour for the last game.

I couldn't disagree more with the post above about other teams being more confident on the ball - the one thing I'd say we've improved massively on under Clarke is our bravery in possession, playing out of tight areas and so on. We were outclassed in that department by Croatia last night, but they have a midfielder who was literally named the best player in the world a couple of years ago. One thing that was noticeable was that the Czechs and Croatia both successfully limited us from getting the ball into the midfield, which forced the defenders to go long at times - that's something we'll need to work on.

I refuse to believe anyone who has sat and watched this team for the last four years has not seen the very obvious progress under Clarke. There are still issues, such as those above, the lack of a good finisher and a bit of a lack of creativity against teams who are roughly at the same level as us, but he has successfully lowered the age profile of the squad substantially, integrated some excellent younger players, and has instilled belief back in the squad and the support. It's almost a completely different squad from Strachan's time in charge - Tierney and Robertson are the only players who started last night from Strachan's last game in charge just under four years ago.

The World Cup qualifiers are the big test for him now. I think we've made a decent but not brilliant start to those, and we still have everything up for grabs in that respect. Denmark are better than us but not so much better than us that we can't beat them, and we've seen nothing from Austria to suggest they can't be beaten. We need to be competitive in that right up until the end - if it fizzles out, which I really don't expect, then that would be the time to ask about his future. However, I have complete confidence we're going to at least get close to qualifying for the World Cup, and then I see absolutely no reason why we won't be at the next Euros.

It's not surprising that folk are lashing out with reactionary nonsense after a raw and difficult defeat last night, but I do think quite a few people have completely lost the run of themselves over the last few months, if they ever had it in the first place.

Agree with all of this except the bit about running close on the World Cup qualifiers. I think we've fucked that.

[Trackdaybob]

1 hour ago, BingMcCrosby said:

Overall performances and results have been poor.

We managed to get to this tournament by an excellent draw with serbia. A game we should have won in the 90mins. That along with the England game is our only good performances under Clarke.

Hes produced some good performances when our backs to the wall. But thats it. He's unable to win games at home, we always look like the away team.

He got us to a tournament for the first time in 23 years, but we were not good. 2 home games and 0 points, its unforgivable.

Hes already made a terrible start to the next qualifying. Its time we parted ways, hes never going to be a good manager for us.

Last night as Souness says was dark ages stuff. Also the wrong team and tactics. 

But the worst thing of all was the reluctance to change things. We were on top in spells for the first half. Croatia started to control the game and we left the players out there to rot. Rather than freshen things up and get back at them. 

The changes were to litte to late and now were out. Arguably the worst team in the tournament.

Yes turkey and North Macedonia lost all 3 games, but neither played a home game. And we played 2. 

Nothing against the guy, I want every scotland manager to succeed. But its been poor overall. It really has.

Strachan when we went deserved to go, but he had the team playing better than this. Were going nowhere.

 

In the sea. 

[craigkillie]

1 minute ago, George Parr said:

Agree with all of this except the bit about running close on the World Cup qualifiers. I think we've fucked that.

We're literally sitting second in our group. If we can get through the next triple header with at least 5 points then we'll be in a strong position.

[Bonksy+HisChristianParade]

11 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

On the whole I thought it was a disappointing and frustrating tournament for us, but for the most part we looked like a team who were certainly not out of our depth at this level, just suffered from some bad decision making, a wee bit of bad luck and a general lack of cutting edge. The absence of Ryan Jack was a massive blow - it left us having to try to totally reshape our midfield, and it didn't work in the first game, then we found something that seemed to work against England only to then lose Gilmour for the last game.

I couldn't disagree more with the post above about other teams being more confident on the ball - the one thing I'd say we've improved massively on under Clarke is our bravery in possession, playing out of tight areas and so on. We were outclassed in that department by Croatia last night, but they have a midfielder who was literally named the best player in the world a couple of years ago. One thing that was noticeable was that the Czechs and Croatia both successfully limited us from getting the ball into the midfield, which forced the defenders to go long at times - that's something we'll need to work on.

I refuse to believe anyone who has sat and watched this team for the last four years has not seen the very obvious progress under Clarke. There are still issues, such as those above, the lack of a good finisher and a bit of a lack of creativity against teams who are roughly at the same level as us, but he has successfully lowered the age profile of the squad substantially, integrated some excellent younger players, and has instilled belief back in the squad and the support. It's almost a completely different squad from Strachan's time in charge - Tierney and Robertson are the only players who started last night from Strachan's last game in charge just under four years ago.

The World Cup qualifiers are the big test for him now. I think we've made a decent but not brilliant start to those, and we still have everything up for grabs in that respect. Denmark are better than us but not so much better than us that we can't beat them, and we've seen nothing from Austria to suggest they can't be beaten. We need to be competitive in that right up until the end - if it fizzles out, which I really don't expect, then that would be the time to ask about his future. However, I have complete confidence we're going to at least get close to qualifying for the World Cup, and then I see absolutely no reason why we won't be at the next Euros.

It's not surprising that folk are lashing out with reactionary nonsense after a raw and difficult defeat last night, but I do think quite a few people have completely lost the run of themselves over the last few months, if they ever had it in the first place.

I don’t think Steve Clarke should be sacked but I highly doubt we will qualify for the World Cup. Denmark obviously had the horrific Eriksen situation and would’ve beaten Finland if that hadn’t happened IMO. They thrashed Russia who showed they are miles ahead of us when we last played them. Austria have won two games and are in the round of 16 along with Denmark. We’ve got to play Austria away, Denmark x2, as well as the impossible feat of beating Israel. Not happening.

[George Parr]

1 minute ago, craigkillie said:

We're literally sitting second in our group. If we can get through the next triple header with at least 5 points then we'll be in a strong position.

We'll take 3 points from the triple header and not a stitch more.

[DanMc99]

so for the people who want clarke to go. who is  your candidate to take over and why?

[Salt n Vinegar]

I'd have preferred it if the thread title ended with a question mark, but we are where we are.

I have no problem with those who want to look to the future, but let's not be damn fools about it.  I'm not keen on kicking a manager or a team when they are down, but what exactly is it we want? Well, we want 2022 World Cup qualification. Others have commented on the likelihood of success, so here's my rant. 

Apart from us, there are 2 "Diddy teams" in the qualifying group - Moldova and Faroe Islands We are already 4 points behind Denmark after 3 games. Denmark have beaten Austria away from home 4-0 and Israel away from home 2-0.  Oh, and they thumped Moldova 8-0.

We have drawn in Israel and at home with Austria and have beaten the Faroes at Hampden. Prospects of winning the group are over unless we take maximum points in early September in 3 games. Denmark away, Moldova at home and Austria away.  Anyone confident about that? Really? 

If we don't win the group there's the escape route - the second place teams in the 10 groups plus the best 2 two Nations League winners fight like rats in a sack for 3 more WC places. More effin agony. 

Unless we want to go through the "more agony" route, we need to win the group.  (For younger readers, yes, Scotland has won WC Qualifying groups... Google/Wikipedia can provide details. ) 

If Clarke goes, who replaces him? With our recent track record we aren't exactly likely to have world class managers forming a queue at the SFA.  

I'll calm down at some point, but when you see similar countries doing well it is so frustrating. 

[DanMc99]

15 minutes ago, Bonksy+HisChristianParade said:

I don’t think Steve Clarke should be sacked but I highly doubt we will qualify for the World Cup. Denmark obviously had the horrific Eriksen situation and would’ve beaten Finland if that hadn’t happened IMO. They thrashed Russia who showed they are miles ahead of us when we last played them. Austria have won two games and are in the round of 16 along with Denmark. We’ve got to play Austria away, Denmark x2, as well as the impossible feat of beating Israel. Not happening.

the problem we've had against israel is that we've never kept the ball well enough against them and ended up far too deep. gilmour and mcgregor should help that. plus che adams movement should help us to beat them.

i think that team that played on friday night is the way forward with the odd change.

[craigkillie]

14 minutes ago, Bonksy+HisChristianParade said:

I don’t think Steve Clarke should be sacked but I highly doubt we will qualify for the World Cup. Denmark obviously had the horrific Eriksen situation and would’ve beaten Finland if that hadn’t happened IMO. They thrashed Russia who showed they are miles ahead of us when we last played them. Austria have won two games and are in the round of 16 along with Denmark. We’ve got to play Austria away, Denmark x2, as well as the impossible feat of beating Israel. Not happening.

Denmark are better than us as I said, but that Russia team is a shadow of the previous one, ever since they stopped the ol' doping. Austria were 3rd seeds and therefore had the benefit of having North Macedonia in their group (who they stumbled past) and their other win over Ukraine was one of the most incompetent games I've ever seen at a major tournament.

[DanMc99]

Just now, craigkillie said:

Denmark are better than us as I said, but that Russia team is a shadow of the previous one, ever since they stopped the ol' doping. Austria were 3rd seeds and therefore had the benefit of having North Macedonia in their group (who they stumbled past) and their other win over Ukraine was one of the most incompetent games I've ever seen at a major tournament.

also we have already played austria and quite clearly they are nothing to fear, they have the benefit of an easy group which makes them look better.

[Savage Henry]

The constant underperformance might suggest it isn’t the manager, it’s the players.  For all Clarke was badly out managed last night, the players didn’t show up, by and large. The England game was the best Scotland has played in years.  I have no idea why they regressed so badly both on and off the ball against Croatia.  Croatia are no better than England.     

[Bonksy+HisChristianParade]

1 minute ago, craigkillie said:

Denmark are better than us as I said, but that Russia team is a shadow of the previous one, ever since they stopped the ol' doping. Austria were 3rd seeds and therefore had the benefit of having North Macedonia in their group (who they stumbled past) and their other win over Ukraine was one of the most incompetent games I've ever seen at a major tournament.

You’re living in dreamland if you think we’ll get second. Ukraine are actually a decent side who we wouldn’t beat. We can’t even beat fucking Israel. Honestly I agree that there have been positives to Steve Clarke’s tenure but in the majority of games we’ve still been woeful.

[DanMc99]

Just now, Savage Henry said:

The constant underperformance might suggest it isn’t the manager, it’s the players.  For all Clarke was badly out managed last night, the players didn’t show up, by and large. The England game was the best Scotland has played in years.  I have no idea why they regressed so badly both on and off the ball against Croatia.  Croatia are no better than England.     

on the ball they are better there's no question about that. england have the pace and players who can nick a goal which kept croatia at arms length but in possession the croats are miles ahead of england.

[HuttonDressedAsLahm]

We were very close to marquee result against England, and if nothing else, it was as good a performance as I've seen in recent years.  Certainly since we played Serbia, or before that Lithuania away.  Most definitely the best performance we've played against a top tier nation since, what, France away in 2007?  Perhaps Ukraine at Hampden in 2007?

Denmark are a great side, but they aren't unbeatable.  An England-like performance would give us a decent chance at getting something.  It certainly gives us a chance in Vienna.

Edited June 23, 2021 by HuttonDressedAsLahm

[DanMc99]

Just now, Bonksy+HisChristianParade said:

You’re living in dreamland if you think we’ll get second. Ukraine are actually a decent side who we wouldn’t beat. We can’t even beat fucking Israel. Honestly I agree that there have been positives to Steve Clarke’s tenure but in the majority of games we’ve still been woeful.

f**k it lets hire the next best scottish manager and sack him after one campaign. then repeat that.

[ftk]

I'd stick with Clarke for next few years. Nobody else I can think of that could come in and do a better job.

[DanMc99]

Just now, HuttonDressedAsLahm said:

We were very close to marquee result against England, and if nothing else, it was as good a performance as I've seen in recent years.  Certainly since we played Lithuania Serbia, or before that Lithuania away.  Most definitely the best performance we've played against a top tier nation since, what, France away in 2007?  Perhaps Ukraine at Hampden in 2007?

Denmark are a great side, but they aren't unbeatable.  An England-like performance would give us a decent chance at getting something.  It certainly gives us a chance in Vienna.

Yep Denmark are a very good side but as you say they are being overrated on here. they beat the russians who rarely do well at tournaments with WC 2018 being the excpetion.

[Bonksy+HisChristianParade]

1 minute ago, DanMc99 said:

f**k it lets hire the next best scottish manager and sack him after one campaign. then repeat that.

I literally said I didn’t want him to be sacked you simpleton.