Time to go Steve Clarke

[craigkillie]

Bing getting a hard time for his original nonsense thread, but he was far from the only one getting carried away after a couple of bad results, as we can see from this selection of posts after the Ireland game.

 

On 11/06/2022 at 17:58, ZX1886 said:

Our players don’t care. They perform for their clubs, but NEVER for Scotland. Its time the media started hounding them for their performances rather than hyping them up at every point.

As my earlier posts in this thread prove, I’ve never been behind Clarke, but managing these players at an international level must be a nightmare.

 

On 11/06/2022 at 18:34, Clown Job said:

Aye time up for Clarke 

They need to get over the Vogts experience and look foreign for a manager 

 

On 11/06/2022 at 18:56, ZX1886 said:

I agree. Clarke isn’t the man to take us forward, but the players (at least the majority) don’t care about playing for Scotland, who can change that.

 

On 11/06/2022 at 19:00, Ken Deans said:

Have you watched Czechs Croatia n Ukraine at Hampden never mind that apocalypse today. If you enjoy pathetic Scotland failures that we all saw coming carry on. Personally don't like it. Man is a clown

 

On 11/06/2022 at 19:03, Gmfc 23 said:

Out now 

 

On 11/06/2022 at 19:04, DC92 said:

A complete list of competitive Hampden defeats by more than one goal since the turn of the century:

0-2 v Belgium in 2013 (Strachan)

0-4 v Belgium in 2019 (Clarke)

0-2 v Czech Republic in 2021 (Clarke)

1-3 v Croatia in 2021 (Clarke)

1-3 v Ukraine in 2022 (Clarke)

Pathetic capitulations at home against anyone half-decent has become the norm under Clarke, something not even Vogts, Burley and Levein managed. The very good performance and result against a weakened Denmark was the exception.

Aside from that, the positives pretty much amount to well-timed away results in Serbia, England and Austria. Away games in which we are unfancied are Clarke's forté. In these games, we've tended to do well enough to get a good draw or sneak a win. In just about every other situation — home games against anyone half-decent, away games against pretty much anyone — we've toiled to put a performance together.

Tactically, he seems to have one idea that's completely reliant on one injury-prone player. When that player isn't available, he persists with the idea despite the fact it hasn't produced in a single good performance. When it's not working, he never reacts until it's far too late.

I really thought we'd turned the corner after the run of games last autumn, but here we are seeing the same mistakes and getting the same clueless performances.

Time up for me, and we have to broaden our horizons beyond out of work Scottish managers when we're looking for a replacement.

 

On 11/06/2022 at 19:14, eez-eh said:

We look absolutely clueless whenever a team figure out how to combat our shape or how to defend against our set pieces. He’s shown enough now that he’ll never change the system.

 

On 11/06/2022 at 19:39, Bully Wee Villa said:

Unforgivable tonight. His greatest achievement is qualifying for a 24 team tournament when McLeish did the heavy lifting. This is the most talented Scotland squad this century and they've just been hammered by the worst Ireland team since I started watching football 35 years ago. Clarke Out.

 

On 11/06/2022 at 19:45, Binos said:

We're out of this nations league,  unless we win all remaining games,  which is not happening 

So yes,  time to let someone else have a try

The problem is who, which is why he'll stay 

 

On 11/06/2022 at 20:02, Jagsman411971 said:

Clarke has to go. I know its a results business, but the performances over his reign as manager, have been fucking woeful, with 1 or 2 exceptions.

 

On 11/06/2022 at 22:46, ScottishZizou said:

I posted this in the match thread but sort of replicating here as more appropriate.

The lack of tactical flexibility is astonishing . No matter what players are fit, no matter what team we are playing, the same formation trudged out whether it suits us or not. Utter incompetency from a manager at that level. 
 

Clarke’s big achievement is reaching the 24 team euros. In the last 6 years, Wales have qualified for that twice (got to the semi final once and got a World Cup place), Ireland and Northern Ireland both got out their euro groups when they made it there. So Clarke’s big achievement is achieving less than every other home nations team has achieved in recent years and lucking there on coin toss penalty shoot outs. 
Losing like that to this dreadful Ireland team is borderline Mcleish in Kazakhstan stuff, staggeringly bad.

Will be remembered fondly for his contribution in getting us to the Euros (although as mentioned above not really the amazing achievement some would have you believe) but it’s time to go for me, tactically being made to look clueless too often which I didn’t expect when he was appointed but here we are. 

 

On 11/06/2022 at 23:04, edinabear said:

Sack this alcoholic tramp. The best squad we've had in 30 years and he is destroying us

 

On 11/06/2022 at 23:13, DAFC. said:

Yeah, he has got to go now.

 

[Squirrelhumper]

Some absolute howling takes on here.

Glad to see them with egg on their faces. 

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, craigkillie said:

Bing getting a hard time for his original nonsense thread, but he was far from the only one getting carried away after a couple of bad results, as we can see from this selection of posts after the Ireland game.

I'm being asked to delete the thread which I haven't as I've got nothing to hide and have no issue with old posts being dragged up. If you look at the posts some are critical of the tactics, which have been changed. So they were right.

I've admitted i got it wrong, I have no problem with that.

I think its fair now tho that the posters who insisted that we couldn't play 4 at the back step forward and admit they got it wrong.

Some have already on the Ukraine thread and credit to them.

If they don't it shows there not a loyal supporter of Steve Clarke.

Edited September 29, 2022 by BingMcCrosby

[Bing.McCrosby]

On another note I think its worth considering, what kind of person does Steve Clarke surround himself with in his staff?

Is it people who just say "oh yes Steve I agree"

Like posters on here who have honestly posted "I agree with Steve Clarke because he is a professional football manager"

I think its far more likely he would want people with opinions of their own. People prepared to say "I dont think you got that right Steve" "Have you considered this steve"

And tbh without that, and frankly without people like me we wouldn't have made this "giant leap forward" steves words

So stop worrying about being right or wrong everyone, I was wrong about Steve's ability to change, I was right about the formation and tactics. Yang and Yang

 

[DAFC.]

20 minutes ago, Squirrelhumper said:

Some absolute howling takes on here.

Glad to see them with egg on their faces. 

Happily proved wrong. Long live the glorious reign of General Supreme Clarke. 

[eez-eh]

46 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

Bing getting a hard time for his original nonsense thread, but he was far from the only one getting carried away after a couple of bad results, as we can see from this selection of posts after the Ireland game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Very happy to be proven wrong about the “he’ll never change the shape” line.

I’m sure if someone had the time to go trawling through the Aaron Hickey thread there’d be a few posts from yourself (and a few others) that haven’t aged particularly well either.

[Monkey Tennis]

2 hours ago, velo army said:

Good post, but I think, like many, you've taken this line at face value.

Strachan was an excellent man manager and part of his method in this was to take pressure off of his players. He never came out and said that the players had a flat performance, or that they were poor. The eugenics line became the story, and nobody talked about how we just weren't at it against Slovenia. We were poor and the defending at both Slovenia goals was dreadful, but even now the narrative of that game is defined by us just not being tall enough as a race. It was a clever distraction designed to take the pressure off his players. That's all. I don't believe Strachan believed a word of it.

 

I think you're giving him ludicrous volumes of credit here.

Strahan wasn't skilfully protecting anyone when he came out with that shit.  He was simply an opinionated fool with a wildly inflated sense of his own intelligence and insight.

 

Was he also offering a clever diversion when suggesting that our game should be "engineered" to artificially elevate Rangers during the banter years?

[Gordopolis]

2 hours ago, velo army said:

Good post, but I think, like many, you've taken this line at face value.

Strachan was an excellent man manager and part of his method in this was to take pressure off of his players. He never came out and said that the players had a flat performance, or that they were poor. The eugenics line became the story, and nobody talked about how we just weren't at it against Slovenia. We were poor and the defending at both Slovenia goals was dreadful, but even now the narrative of that game is defined by us just not being tall enough as a race. It was a clever distraction designed to take the pressure off his players. That's all. I don't believe Strachan believed a word of it.

 

Don't disagree with that angle at all - yet it remains one of the most vulgar attempts at deflection I've ever heard, and that's why, I think, he was rightly ridiculed for it. 
 

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, eez-eh said:

Very happy to be proven wrong about the “he’ll never change the shape” line.

I’m sure if someone had the time to go trawling through the Aaron Hickey thread there’d be a few posts from yourself (and a few others) that haven’t aged particularly well either.

Thats an excellent point, posters who would never admit they got something wrong. On fishing for people to admit they got something wrong.

[KingRocketman II]

2 hours ago, velo army said:

Good post, but I think, like many, you've taken this line at face value.

Strachan was an excellent man manager and part of his method in this was to take pressure off of his players. He never came out and said that the players had a flat performance, or that they were poor. The eugenics line became the story, and nobody talked about how we just weren't at it against Slovenia. We were poor and the defending at both Slovenia goals was dreadful, but even now the narrative of that game is defined by us just not being tall enough as a race. It was a clever distraction designed to take the pressure off his players. That's all. I don't believe Strachan believed a word of it.

 

Nonsense. Strachan is an archetypal wee man obsessed with height and looks at the world through the insecure prism of being wee. The genetic comments were from 2017. This is him a year earlier trying to justify why he considered Griffiths was too small to lead the line and therefore preferred Martin:

The national team boss, speaking to several Sunday newspapers, replied after he was asked whether Griffiths would have to accept he would only be used as a substitute:

“No, I wouldn’t say that. In the 51 games in the Euro Championships the first 19 goals were scored from set plays. “That means you have to have a certain amount of height to defend corner kicks. I’ll give you an example. The team was a lot smaller at 2-0 than it was at 0-0 (in Slovakia) and the first corner kick we get after that, they score with a header. Does that help you with the certain amount of height that you have to have in my team? There’s absolutely no doubt about it.

“People can argue that toss and debate it. But that is fact. You need to have a certain amount of height in international football teams to defend set plays."

Strachan is of course all over the place in saying that someone may be great leading the line and can score you goals but if that same striker can't defend set plays because of his lack of stature then he is of no use - and seemingly this comment disregards how tall the defence or the midfielders that have been selected are - which regularly included Barry Bannan.

But height and the lack-of, is again his focus here. 

[Gordopolis]

1 hour ago, TheScarf said:

I think Malta are professional but just absolutely shite.  I agree with your point, however.  No wins against non-minnows.

That was a massive problem for a long time - long before Strachan and after too. I think barring the two wins vs Croatia in 2013/14 (ironically overseen by Strachan), we had failed to beat a higher ranked team in a competitive game since something ridiculous like 2007, all the way through into Clarke's reign , I *think*.

[Gordopolis]

1 hour ago, scottsdad said:

There can be only one.

There can only be 'shree', surely?

[Jacksgranda]

8 hours ago, TheScarf said:

Remember when the Scotland manager was Gordon Strachan? 

I remember when the Scotland manager was Bobby Brown. Champions of the world!

In fact, I can remember back to Ian McColl.

[2426255]

Love this thread. excellent chat - keep it up boys.

[KingRocketman II]

4 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

I remember when the Scotland manager was Bobby Brown. Champions of the world!

In fact, I can remember back to Ian McColl.

 

[Bully Wee Villa]

1 hour ago, craigkillie said:

Bing getting a hard time for his original nonsense thread, but he was far from the only one getting carried away after a couple of bad results, as we can see from this selection of posts after the Ireland game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm always wrong in my defence I was very drunk.

Gerrard can still f**k off, though.

[Bing.McCrosby]

1 hour ago, velo army said:

Good post, but I think, like many, you've taken this line at face value.

Strachan was an excellent man manager and part of his method in this was to take pressure off of his players. He never came out and said that the players had a flat performance, or that they were poor. The eugenics line became the story, and nobody talked about how we just weren't at it against Slovenia. We were poor and the defending at both Slovenia goals was dreadful, but even now the narrative of that game is defined by us just not being tall enough as a race. It was a clever distraction designed to take the pressure off his players. That's all. I don't believe Strachan believed a word of it.

 

I agree with the point that Strachan didn't believe what he was saying and was just trying to create a distraction.

But I think by this point 90% of people had sussed him out and it was just such complete crap it backfired on him.

[craigkillie]

21 minutes ago, eez-eh said:

I’m sure if someone had the time to go trawling through the Aaron Hickey thread there’d be a few posts from yourself (and a few others) that haven’t aged particularly well either.

 

I've used the forum's search function to look through my posts about Hickey, and there's not really anything there that jumps out to me as being wild.

I'd say I've been an enormous fan since I started watching him for Bologna (he never stood out for me much at Hearts but he was very young). My main "negatives" and the reason folk have it in their head that I don't like him or whatever, was that people kept posting about how he could easily play RWB because he had done it already in his career, something that basically wasn't true at the time (any time pre January 2022). I've also said that I don't think he can play centre-back, which I still don't.

Since those posts, he has played it a decent number of times for Bologna (and once, very badly for Scotland), and has also started playing at RB for both club and country to a really high standard. But that in itself isn't a surprise to me since I've said for a while that I thought he could end up in that role.

There are quite a few Scotland players I've got it completely wrong about in both directions - Hendry is probably one of them because I was very unsure about him coming back into the squad at first when he was playing in Belgium, and I've held my hands up a few times about those (probably more on Twitter than on here because a lot of old threads on here stay buried).

Here's a selection of my Hickey posts - feel free to trawl through them all if you want

https://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php?/search/&q=hickey&page=2&quick=1&author=craigkillie&search_and_or=or&sortby=relevancy:

  

On 08/04/2021 at 10:43, craigkillie said:

I fully expect the likes of Turnbull, Hickey and Gilmour to represent the next group breaking through into the squad - all of them are excellent prospects, and I think would have been capped over the last few months if we'd had any friendlies. Patterson might be the same, but I still feel like I've not seen enough from him to know if he's up to it  - he has still only started two Premiership games for Rangers and I felt he struggled in the European games. More likely for me is that Hickey ends up being our RWB (or RB if we revert to a back four).

 

On 11/03/2020 at 12:45, craigkillie said:

Hickey is a tremendously talented footballer with excellent technique. What he isn't though, is a good defender. He has been torn to shreds by several wingers this season. That side of his game will come, but I don't think he's had a particularly good season.

Anyway, he's not even in the U19s squad, which suggests that he has probably been left out to prevent him from burning out from all the football he has played this year.

 

On 14/09/2021 at 18:48, craigkillie said:

Taylor has started 10 times for Celtic this season, Hickey has started 13 times in his entire Bologna career. Taylor is also only 23 himself but seems to be talked about as though he's some veteran jobber. That's not a judgement on their relative merits, just a quick note.

Hickey is really nicely suited as a wing-back in our system. He wasn't great defensively when he played here and from what I've seen at Bologna he plays so high up the park he hardly has to defend. However, he is technically superb and would offer a lot as a wing-back option in our squad. I don't think he's remotely as good a defender as Doig, who I see as quite Tierney-like.

I'd quite like to see him in the next squad with a view to potentially giving him a go off the bench in the Faroes. Taylor has less to offer in these two games than he would in away games against better teams.

  

On 10/10/2021 at 15:01, craigkillie said:

Hickey has a total of four career games at right-back, all of them around 3 years ago.

 

On 04/06/2021 at 15:58, craigkillie said:

If I'm looking at current Scottish teenager who are likely to have a future in the national team, I'd say Gilmour, Patterson and Hickey are the only ones I'd be pretty certain of. Then you can point at the likes of Doig who would have more of a chance if he wans't a left-back. After that you've got the two boys at Bayern and Liam Smith at Man City, but it's pure guesswork with them because I haven't seen them play.

 

On 28/12/2020 at 12:24, craigkillie said:

I'd really like to drop Palmer because I don't think he's very good in this system at all, but I'm not sure who I'd bring in. It would be a big call to ask Hickey to be in as cover for right wing-back when he hasn't played there much before, but maybe I'd go for him because I think he is a really good fit to the system and has a great attitude and excellent technical ability.

 

On 01/06/2022 at 18:37, craigkillie said:

I'm a massive fan of Hickey, think he's an exceptional player. My only previous issue was folk saying "he plays there for Bologna all the time" when he'd done it about twice. He's had about six or seven decent games there since then so it's less of a risk, but still a risk nonetheless IMO. However with Patterson out and O'Donnell not fully fit I get it.

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, craigkillie said:

 

I've used the forum's search function to look through my posts about Hickey, and there's not really anything there that jumps out to me as being wild.

I'd say I've been an enormous fan since I started watching him for Bologna (he never stood out for me much at Hearts but he was very young). My main "negatives" and the reason folk have it in their head that I don't like him or whatever, was that people kept posting about how he could easily play RWB because he had done it already in his career, something that basically wasn't true at the time (any time pre January 2022). I've also said that I don't think he can play centre-back, which I still don't.

Since those posts, he has played it a decent number of times for Bologna (and once, very badly for Scotland), and has also started playing at RB for both club and country to a really high standard. But that in itself isn't a surprise to me since I've said for a while that I thought he could end up in that role.

There are quite a few Scotland players I've got it completely wrong about in both directions - Hendry is probably one of them because I was very unsure about him coming back into the squad at first when he was playing in Belgium, and I've held my hands up a few times about those (probably more on Twitter than on here because a lot of old threads on here stay buried).

Here's a selection of my Hickey posts - feel free to trawl through them all if you want

https://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php?/search/&q=hickey&page=2&quick=1&author=craigkillie&search_and_or=or&sortby=relevancy:

  

 

 

  

 

 

 

Craig that isn't accurate, people were also saying that he could play right wing back, or right back because he was so 2 footed and technical. Also because his previous coaches and managers had said so.

People had made their own assessment.

You disagreed with this all the way through.

So the people who made the assessment of hickeys ability to play the position were correct. You were incorrect.

Also you claimed earlier on the hickey thread that other posters had claimed he had played right wing back loads of times throughout his career. Yet were unable to provide one quote backing this up. Your again using this false narrative.

If you look thru some of those topics your quick to rip into the defensive quality's of hickey too. So on that one you've been comprehensively proved wrong also.

You also claimed famously that Greg Taylor was a superior player.

So you've been wrong on multiple accounts regarding hickey. The fact you can't admit any of it just makes you the smaller person.

Edited September 29, 2022 by BingMcCrosby

[Monkey Tennis]

54 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

I agree with the point that Strachan didn't believe what he was saying and was just trying to create a distraction.

If so, there was nothing altruistic about it.  Any distraction would be designed to mask his own failings.

To be honest though, I don't think there was any strategy in play at all.  I think he was just talking characteristic shite.