Time to go Steve Clarke

[SuperSaints1877]

@Satoshi must be Andy aka Captain Sensible. It’s the only explanation. It is his modus operandi.

[Bing.McCrosby]

1 hour ago, velo army said:

In my football supporting lifetime Ireland have made it to 4 tournaments and made it out the group stage in all 4. 

I'd take that over all of our less than glorious failures. 

Well at least your admitting it, your also crazy and wild. You possibly live in a bush.

[Satoshi]

2 hours ago, velo army said:

In my football supporting lifetime Ireland have made it to 4 tournaments and made it out the group stage in all 4. 

I'd take that over all of our less than glorious failures. 

They lost every game at euro 2012 conceding 9 goals and scoring 1.

Don't think they got out of the group stages then, they were the worst team in the tournament.

[Bing.McCrosby]

13 hours ago, BingMcCrosby said:

For the 500th time, yes.

Save me the "oh thats absolutely crazy and wild" reply tho.

 

5 hours ago, Satoshi said:

If anything, it's weirdly admirable, most people hold views that are a bit daft but stay away from stating the obvious contradiction of such beliefs.

You can't help yourself eh, turns out your 13 and have never seen a tournament with Scotland.

Seems theres a few crazy wild folk tho eh

 

[Satoshi]

6 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

 

You can't help yourself eh, turns out your 13 and have never seen a tournament with Scotland.

Seems theres a few crazy wild folk tho eh

 

Well I'm clearly not 13 but even if I was Scotland played in a tournament last year!

You think reaching the last 16 of a 24 team Euros is better than reaching the last 8 of a 8 team Euros. That should be appended to any position you ever have in future as being explicitly counter factual. Like preferring £500 in £10 notes rather than £1000 in £20 notes.

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, Satoshi said:

Well I'm clearly not 13 but even if I was Scotland played in a tournament last year!

You think reaching the last 16 of a 24 team Euros is better than reaching the last 8 of a 8 team Euros. That should be appended to any position you ever have in future as being explicitly counter factual. Like preferring £500 in £10 notes rather than £1000 in £20 notes.

If your in the minority and still any opposing view you see as "pure wild and crazy". And your discussing the excitement and impact of tournaments you weren't old enough to see, and correcting folk who were.

Then yours is the opinion best ignored.

[Satoshi]

53 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

If your in the minority and still any opposing view you see as "pure wild and crazy". And your discussing the excitement and impact of tournaments you weren't old enough to see, and correcting folk who were.

Then yours is the opinion best ignored.

I don't think I'm in the minority, or anyone will agree with you that getting to the last 16 of a 24 team tournament is better than reaching a a tournament with the best 8 teams.

And hardly, I'm correcting people that were erroneously stating what tournaments I had and had not seen. Some people seem to think I couldn't possibly have seen euro 2020, a tournament played last year. The fact that tournament excitement begins from qualification is something that you don't have to actually lived through to state with compete confidence. Hell the BBC documentary Scotland's football jukebox makes this abundantly clear.

Do you ignore all opinions that aren't explicitly counter factual like yours? Must be a fun world to live in, up is down, northern Ireland and Iceland are better than Scotland etc.

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, Satoshi said:

I don't think I'm in the minority, or anyone will agree with you that getting to the last 16 of a 24 team tournament is better than reaching a a tournament with the best 8 teams.

And hardly, I'm correcting people that were erroneously stating what tournaments I had and had not seen. Some people seem to think I couldn't possibly have seen euro 2020, a tournament played last year. The fact that tournament excitement begins from qualification is something that you don't have to actually lived through to state with compete confidence. Hell the BBC documentary Scotland's football jukebox makes this abundantly clear.

Do you ignore all opinions that aren't explicitly counter factual like yours? Must be a fun world to live in, up is down, northern Ireland and Iceland are better than Scotland etc.

If you think scotlands International history is better than Ireland then I would think you are.

[denltfc]

I think definitions of success are relative. 

For Scotland/Ireland making the playoffs is the minimum level of expectation at the start of a qualifying campaign. The next measure is to qualify. Once at a tournament getting out of the group is important and momentum builds. I am 44 and I still remember the excitement of Euro 88 and Italia 90 like it was yesterday. Our run to the quarter final and on another day could of taken the Italians, memories that last a lifetime.  Getting to the tournament is success but once there you have to make an impression. 

It was statistically harder to qualify for a 8 Team tournament, in 1988 25% of teams in qualifying made the tournament (8/32) or in 1922 (8/33) for 24% compared to 1996 34% (16/47) or 2020 44% (24/55). 

It's what you do at a tournament that people remember and Ireland have qualified for 3 World Cups and got out of the group each time and made a quarter final at one. We have been to 3 Euro's and got out of the group once. In 6 tournaments we progressed to the next stage 4 times. 

 

 

 

 

[velo army]

2 hours ago, Satoshi said:

They lost every game at euro 2012 conceding 9 goals and scoring 1.

Don't think they got out of the group stages then, they were the worst team in the tournament.

Bloody hell I forgot they were at 2012, so make that 5 tournaments then, making it out the group stage of 4 of them. Compare that to our 3 in the same period (I've not included them qualifying for Euro 88 either as it's 50-50 whether 5 year old me would have watched) and aye, I would bite your hand off for that.

I don't envisage you changing my mind on that point as I'll always maintain that having my team being semi-regular qualifiers for championships is preferable to being non-qualifiers, but hearing from my da about how we regularly, but toothlessly, qualified for things before.

So we'll agree to disagree.

[Satoshi]

16 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

If you think scotlands International history is better than Ireland then I would think you are.

Our win percentage against all three versions of Ireland (excluding draws) is a stonking 71%. We are much better than them.

Scotland and a joint Ireland are roughly equivalent population, england is 10x the size of either, yet their win record Vs us is a very modest 54% which is basically margin of error stuff. Do you think Ireland's is that close? It is not.

 

16 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

 

 

2 minutes ago, velo army said:

Bloody hell I forgot they were at 2012, so make that 5 tournaments then, making it out the group stage of 4 of them. Compare that to our 3 in the same period (I've not included them qualifying for Euro 88 either as it's 50-50 whether 5 year old me would have watched) and aye, I would bite your hand off for that.

I don't envisage you changing my mind on that point as I'll always maintain that having my team being semi-regular qualifiers for championships is preferable to being non-qualifiers, but hearing from my da about how we regularly, but toothlessly, qualified for things before.

So we'll agree to disagree.

Yeah that's fair enough, if you want to judge solely on your life so far some teams might outperform others (even if overall they are no where near).

I hope you have a long life to come, in which case the evidence suggests Scotland will comfortably outperform Wales and Iceland, and probably outperform Ireland. Just like it has been for most of the last 150 years.

Domestic football wise we dominate them, and always have.

[velo army]

12 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

Our win percentage against all three versions of Ireland (excluding draws) is a stonking 71%. We are much better than them.

Scotland and a joint Ireland are roughly equivalent population, england is 10x the size of either, yet their win record Vs us is a very modest 54% which is basically margin of error stuff. Do you think Ireland's is that close? It is not.

 

 

Yeah that's fair enough, if you want to judge solely on your life so far some teams might outperform others (even if overall they are no where near).

I hope you have a long life to come, in which case the evidence suggests Scotland will comfortably outperform Wales and Iceland, and probably outperform Ireland. Just like it has been for most of the last 150 years.

Domestic football wise we dominate them, and always have.

I will drink to that, mon frere. It would be nice to say to my bairns and grandbairns how shite we were "in my day" when they're gutted that we've only gotten to the quarter finals again.

To the second bold part, I don't know where you get that from as Celtic just won their 10th title in 11 years and have a European Cup .

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, Satoshi said:

Our win percentage against all three versions of Ireland (excluding draws) is a stonking 71%. We are much better than them.

Scotland and a joint Ireland are roughly equivalent population, england is 10x the size of either, yet their win record Vs us is a very modest 54% which is basically margin of error stuff. Do you think Ireland's is that close? It is not.

 

 

Yeah that's fair enough, if you want to judge solely on your life so far some teams might outperform others (even if overall they are no where near).

I hope you have a long life to come, in which case the evidence suggests Scotland will comfortably outperform Wales and Iceland, and probably outperform Ireland. Just like it has been for most of the last 150 years.

Domestic football wise we dominate them, and always have.

For the 501st time, no i dont. I think theirs is better as they do better at major tournaments. Is it ok that I disagree with you?

[KingRocketman II]

3 hours ago, Satoshi said:

Well I'm clearly not 13 but even if I was Scotland played in a tournament last year!

You think reaching the last 16 of a 24 team Euros is better than reaching the last 8 of a 8 team Euros. That should be appended to any position you ever have in future as being explicitly counter factual. Like preferring £500 in £10 notes rather than £1000 in £20 notes.

making the last 16 out of 24 is making it to the knockout stages. Scotland have never done that before.

Scotland did really well to get to grind it out to get to Euro 92 (almost had to apply an algorithm at one stage to work out what we needed to see happens re points with Bulgaria/Romania/Greece or whoever it was in the group) and played really well in all 3 games when there. However ultimately we failed to progress to the knockout stages and that dismal record continues.

Therefore you may not personally agree but it is perfectly reasonable for others to say their assessment of the greater achievement would be seeing Scotland finally break the group stage hoodoo at an expanded tournament. 

[BFTD]

I think I'd lose interest either way TBH. What's the point if you already knew you'd go out in the quarters, or that you'd go out at the first hurdle every time, but qualify more often. It's a strange conversation.

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, BFTD said:

I think I'd lose interest either way TBH. What's the point if you already knew you'd go out in the quarters, or that you'd go out at the first hurdle every time, but qualify more often. It's a strange conversation.

As ana alloa fan its best you stay out of conversations regarding success mate.

[BFTD]

5 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

As ana alloa fan its best you stay out of conversations regarding success mate.

From a shy Morton fan on a thread about Scotland  

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, BFTD said:

From a shy Morton fan on a thread about Scotland  

Everythings relative, compared to you lot were the galacticos

[Satoshi]

57 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

For the 501st time, no i dont. I think theirs is better as they do better at major tournaments. Is it ok that I disagree with you?

You don't what? You said you thought it was better earlier! But yeah fine, some Scotland fans hate the national team so far they legitimately think we are worse than Northern Ireland or Iceland. It's bizarre yeah, but if you think then there's no convincing you otherwise.

1 hour ago, velo army said:

I will drink to that, mon frere. It would be nice to say to my bairns and grandbairns how shite we were "in my day" when they're gutted that we've only gotten to the quarter finals again.

To the second bold part, I don't know where you get that from as Celtic just won their 10th title in 11 years and have a European Cup .

The domestic leagues of Wales and Ireland are pretty poor though, and even without the old firm Scotland has historically good record in Europe and some of the highest proportional attendances in Europe (that's even when excluding the old firm, and not doing the same to other nations). Our domestic game is best in class, something to be very proud of but plenty of evidence it hurts the national team (as it does for turkey and Russia).

34 minutes ago, KingRocketman II said:

making the last 16 out of 24 is making it to the knockout stages. Scotland have never done that before.

Scotland did really well to get to grind it out to get to Euro 92 (almost had to apply an algorithm at one stage to work out what we needed to see happens re points with Bulgaria/Romania/Greece or whoever it was in the group) and played really well in all 3 games when there. However ultimately we failed to progress to the knockout stages and that dismal record continues.

Therefore you may not personally agree but it is perfectly reasonable for others to say their assessment of the greater achievement would be seeing Scotland finally break the group stage hoodoo at an expanded tournament. 

It's just purely a formatting complaint then. The world won't turn if we reach the knockout rounds, and if we reach the last 16 of the euros it still won't be our best performance in the competition, and reaching the last 32 of a 48 team world cup won't be even close to our best record in that competition. It's a stick used to beat the national team but it's pretty unimportant and will disappear soon. Won't think beating northern Ireland in a second round will beat 9 world cup qualifications in 48 years, thats a magnificent record we will never replicate again.

[BFTD]

3 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

Everythings relative, compared to you lot were the galacticos

Must admit, I never thought you'd be so keen to prove my point when I mentioned that some Morton fans have a chip on the shoulder about other diddy clubs, but you should absolutely do this with everyone now.