Bing.McCrosby Posted June 20, 2022 Author Share Posted June 20, 2022 Just now, BFTD said: Something you'll notice about the national team, more so than club sides I think, is the number of people who'll have totally opposing opinions on simple things like this. There were a number of posters during the last window who were absolutely determined that Clarke had lost the dressing room, and that the players couldn't be arsed playing for him. I don't think it's ever been true, personally. The closest we've come is during spells under Vogts and McLeish II, when players just looked confused about what they were supposed to be doing. Im not sure their were a number of posters claiming Clarke had lost the dressing room? I cant be bothered looking back but that doesn't seem right. The question i was asking was has Clarke potentially lost the dressing room. Rather than that affirmative declaration. Guesses that he has are as useful as guesses he has full support. Without insider knowledge its worth nothing. Regarding the poll im quite surprised by the results, almost 50% have Clarke on a shoogly peg. If the poll was done at the time the site was busy we would have got a better idea. And imagine more votes for him to go now, or if performances don't improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 3 minutes ago, Gordopolis said: Burley too from the outset, based on the things Lee McCulloch and Kris Boyd said of that period. Both bawbagishly chucked the national team at the time as well, with Boyd specifically saying he didn't want to be considered for selection under GB. If a player throws the toys out the pram about playing for Scotland, your can normally guess who their employers are. 5 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said: Im not sure their were a number of posters claiming Clarke had lost the dressing room? I cant be bothered looking back but that doesn't seem right. Yeah, there were. Probably most just angry in the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing.McCrosby Posted June 20, 2022 Author Share Posted June 20, 2022 Just now, BFTD said: Yeah, there were. Probably most just angry in the moment. Can you quote them? And can you discuss the topic rather than me for a bit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 3 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said: Can you quote them? And can you discuss the topic rather than me for a bit? Dredge back through the match threads? No, I don't think I'll be doing that. WTF are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing.McCrosby Posted June 20, 2022 Author Share Posted June 20, 2022 Just now, BFTD said: Dredge back through the match threads? No, I don't think I'll be doing that. WTF are you talking about? Ah ok the match thread rather than on here, your probably right I've no idea. 2nd part I realise I've read your initial post wrong Apologies carry on. I was probably just angry in the moment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewan8472 Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Gordopolis said: 1 hour ago, BFTD said: Something you'll notice about the national team, more so than club sides I think, is the number of people who'll have totally opposing opinions on simple things like this. There were a number of posters during the last window who were absolutely determined that Clarke had lost the dressing room, and that the players couldn't be arsed playing for him. I don't think it's ever been true, personally. The closest we've come is during spells under Vogts and McLeish II, when players just looked confused about what they were supposed to be doing. Burley too from the outset, based on the things Lee McCulloch and Kris Boyd said of that period. Both bawbagishly chucked the national team at the time as well, with Boyd specifically saying he didn't want to be considered for selection under GB. A pair of ***s , or ****s ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordopolis Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 (edited) @BFTD : Probably worth a separate thread to compile a list of all the players who have spat the dummy over the years. Be interesting to see any trends or tendencies by era and club? One for @HibeeJibee? P.S. might be tricky to discern between someone calling time aged 32 vs the likes of Boyd in his prime publicly and explicitly chucking the bears out the cot. Edited June 20, 2022 by Gordopolis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velo army Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 Aye it was easy to see why folk thought Clarke had lost the dressing room as the players looked tired, and in the emotional state we find ourselves in afterwards we can wrongly infer disinterest rather than the more prosaic explanation of fatigue. And aye, there were definitely folk saying that he had lost the dressing room. Not exactly in those words, but it was fairly unequivocal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binos Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 No one thought Clarke had lost the dressing room However everyone, press included, now knows he is tactically naive He will every so often get found out, usually it seems in big games We'll probably go on a run, as he will galvanise the group again start of the season But the next big f**k up is some way down the track, lurking I think the reaction was more the realisation of that, rather than the delusion we were collectively harbouring post Denmark that a huge leap forward had been taken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Binos said: I think the reaction was more the realisation of that, rather than the delusion we were collectively harbouring post Denmark that a huge leap forward had been taken Yes, that's about right. I think the mistake lay in people seeing the Denmark game as, if not typical, at least as a huge breakthrough that we could expect to replicate in future. In truth, despite it coming as part of a decent looking sequence, it was a real outlier in terms of the completeness of the performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordopolis Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 Yes, that's about right. I think the mistake lay in people seeing the Denmark game as, if not typical, at least as a huge breakthrough that we could expect to replicate in future. In truth, despite it coming as part of a decent looking sequence, it was a real outlier in terms of the completeness of the performance.Not wrong to take hope from it though.Expectation was a problem, yes, but not hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loominous Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 Are fan expectations an issue? Is the Scotland team as good as we think we are? Is our competition better or worse than we think think they are? Are we underachieving? overachieving? or where we expect to be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velo army Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 4 hours ago, Loominous said: Are fan expectations an issue? Is the Scotland team as good as we think we are? Is our competition better or worse than we think think they are? Are we underachieving? overachieving? or where we expect to be? Yes. No. Definitely. Yes. No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 If we're underachieving, who are we substantially better than but regularly finishing behind? Looking through the rankings just now and, while there are a couple of European teams of similar ability above us, nobody seems notably poorer. The main difference will likely be that most of them have a regular goalscorer - Wales, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binos Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 10 hours ago, Gordopolis said: Not wrong to take hope from it though. Expectation was a problem, yes, but not hope. It's the hope that kills you Has anyone ever said that before 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richey Edwards Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 Watching Stevie during Scotland games, he does seem like the guy at a party who sits in the corner silently drinking all night before getting up and randomly cracking someone over the head with a vodka bottle. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richey Edwards Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 8 minutes ago, BFTD said: Watching Stevie during Scotland games, he does seem like the guy at a party who sits in the corner silently drinking all night before getting up and randomly cracking someone over the head with a vodka bottle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 Quote I can understand the frustration from losing that game. There was obviously huge disappointment in terms of the result and the performance around about the Ukraine game. That disappointment's a sign of the expectation now that people do expect us to qualify for major tournaments because we have such a good squad. We live in a world now where people want things to change instantly. We need to be more balanced about that and look at the progress that the team's made over a period of time. We have won a lot of games. We appointed Steve, we wanted him to make a pot four team a pot two team (in seeding) and that's what he did in the World Cup qualifying programme. We need to look forward to that happening again in the Euros and hopefully ultimately ending in us qualifying for Germany. Ian Maxwell https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61887055 Spot on in my opinion. The appraisal of the Scotland team must be more balanced. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing.McCrosby Posted June 22, 2022 Author Share Posted June 22, 2022 15 hours ago, BFTD said: If we're underachieving, who are we substantially better than but regularly finishing behind? Looking through the rankings just now and, while there are a couple of European teams of similar ability above us, nobody seems notably poorer. The main difference will likely be that most of them have a regular goalscorer - Wales, for example. Without even really thinking about it, Wales, Republic or Ireland, Iceland Plenty of others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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