Time to go Steve Clarke

[KingRocketman II]

1 hour ago, Bairnardo said:

Its mental, the way we eulogise how long its been since our last WC, yet something that happened a mere 4 years later is burned into our heads as a warning against non-Scottish managers. 

I mean, Celtic havent had a Scottish manager since 2009, Rangers, depending if Murty considers himself a Scotsman or not, you are looking at bit-part caretaker stints here and there for Scots since McCoist in 2014. 

An Englishman has never won the EPL in its EPL era. The best teams consistently cast the net wide, and their National team could realistically be called footballs biggest underachievers. They have dabbled with foreign coaches but in the main, they have won f**k all whilst going round the English jobber merry-go-round.  

The case against going foreign/non-Scots couldn't be any flimsier. 

"we have gone down that road before and look where that has got is......"

Like refusing to sign Mbappe on a free cause you once had Bert Konterman in yer team. 

[2426255]

10 hours ago, Clown Job said:

To be honest I wouldn’t fancy him for the job, but I think the point is we should at least be going out and asking these guys if they’re interested instead of settling for some Scottish jobber 

 

10 hours ago, Bully Wee Villa said:

Just get the best available manager. If they happen to be Scottish, that's fine. If not, we shouldn't be afraid to appoint any of the eight billion or so non-Scots just because one didn't do very well, with an admittedly poor squad to choose from, twenty years ago.

 

10 hours ago, Bairnardo said:

Its mental, the way we eulogise how long its been since our last WC, yet something that happened a mere 4 years later is burned into our heads as a warning against non-Scottish managers. 

I mean, Celtic havent had a Scottish manager since 2009, Rangers, depending if Murty considers himself a Scotsman or not, you are looking at bit-part caretaker stints here and there for Scots since McCoist in 2014. 

An Englishman has never won the EPL in its EPL era. The best teams consistently cast the net wide, and their National team could realistically be called footballs biggest underachievers. They have dabbled with foreign coaches but in the main, they have won f**k all whilst going round the English jobber merry-go-round.  

The case against going foreign/non-Scots couldn't be any flimsier. 

 

8 hours ago, KingRocketman II said:

"we have gone down that road before and look where that has got is......"

Like refusing to sign Mbappe on a free cause you once had Bert Konterman in yer team. 

The only issue I have with going and getting a foreign manager is that we currently have a manager.

[Richey Edwards]

13 hours ago, Binos said:

Seeing jackson irvine up front dykes is probably kicking himself 

He'd probably miss.

[DAFC.]

Clarke's going nowhere. He'll hang on that Euro 2020 qualifying achievement for plenty years to come. 

[Orbix]

 

2 players under 23 to face off against the might of Armenia. Greg Taylor just the right age to squeak into a Clarke side.

 

 

 

.

 

[Highlandmagar]

Go now. And don't let the door hit your arse on the way out.

[accies1874]

When Clarke had a shite run in 2019, he decided that a back five was the way ahead. Imo that made the team better and he regularly progressed the shape/tactics to make us a good side. 

This has been a shite camp but I'm hoping he'll use these months to understand what the f**k's gone wrong. His record grants him that time, but if September goes as badly as our last games against Ukraine and Ireland then it might be time to go.

[Loominous]

I think we are in a reasonable place to try and qualify from the group and so in my view I would rather stick with the manager we have presently even in the face of an underwhelming camp. Not every camp will go to plan and so I'm happy to just take it on the chin, not rake through the bones and look forward with hope and optimism to games in September.

[edinabear]

Most of these players play in a 4-3-3 formation for their clubs. I would love Steve clark just to try that once

[velo army]

On 13/06/2022 at 21:03, Zazu said:

I've never been Clarke out and still amn't, 

 

Absolute state of this.

It's "I've never been Clarke out and am still urny".

Sorted.

[Bully Wee Villa]

Bought himself some time. Two wins from the next three and he might be back in my good books, fickle gobshite that I am.

[Smokerson]

Steve deserves the chance to have a shot at taking us to the Euros. I've really enjoyed watching the team over the last 3 years and the reaction to the Ukraine and ROI games have been way over the top. As someone said, he needs to carefully analyse what went wrong and rectify it for September. I'd like us to take at least 6 points from the games and go into the next group with a bit confidence.

In his defence, the changing of the Ukraine game, the emotional attachment to the game and the fact we were missing Tierney didnt help but there's always going to be players missing at international level. The performance in Dublin i have to say was really worrying.

Most people with a football brain can see that the 3/5 at the back really suits when Tierney and Robertson are available as they both have to play, without one of them he really needs to revert to a 4.

Edited June 15, 2022 by Smokerson

[Lex]

We learned this international break that we are certainly better than Armenia, which is fine. Probably already knew that right enough. Armenia have never and will never qualify for a major tournament though, so being better than them is not much use to us.

The two mid ranking European sides who we did play both gubbed us. That's a big worry, these weren't elite teams or anything. Just countries that sometimes qualify and sometimes don't. The exact type of teams we need to be beating, or at the very least not being humped by.

Big three games in September then the draw for Euro 2024 qualifying is in October. As far as i can see we don't have a competitive game for six months between September and the start of those qualifiers in March. Clarke will be in charge for the start of that campaign, but he could do with going into that big gap with at least a bit of momentum.

Edited June 15, 2022 by Lex

[Fratelli]

He’s always had that sort of attitude towards the press, but feels a bit different when he’s aiming it at fans and it’ll only wind folk up. Not all that dissimilar to Lennon’s ramblings about ‘real fans’ last season which didn’t do him any favours.

[Ewan8472]

11 hours ago, edinabear said:

Most of these players play in a 4-3-3 formation for their clubs. I would love Steve clark just to try that once

Tierney or Robertson ?

[2426255]

14 minutes ago, Fratelli said:

He’s always had that sort of attitude towards the press, but feels a bit different when he’s aiming it at fans and it’ll only wind folk up. Not all that dissimilar to Lennon’s ramblings about ‘real fans’ last season which didn’t do him any favours.

I agreed with him when I heard it, but I'd consider myself a realistic fan. He is trying to encourage the fans to be more realistic, but you're probably right, they won't be receptive and will take it badly.

The only manager of a home nations international team that hasn't been under pressure this June is Rob Page - so kind of tells you where we're at regarding fan expectations if the majority of managers aren't meeting them.

[Donathan]

44 minutes ago, Ewan8472 said:

Tierney or Robertson ?

There is no reason why you can’t play both in a 4-3-3 btw.

 

- Tierney could play LCB in a back four or would IMO be a fantastic holding midfielder, Phillip Lahm style.

 

- Robertson on the left wing, Bale style.

 

[Diamonds are Forever]

1 hour ago, Lex said:

We learned this international break that we are certainly better than Armenia, which is fine. Probably already knew that right enough. Armenia have never and will never qualify for a major tournament though, so being better than them is not much use to us.

The two mid ranking European sides who we did play both gubbed us. That's a big worry, these weren't elite teams or anything. Just countries that sometimes qualify and sometimes don't. The exact type of teams we need to be beating, or at the very least not being humped by.

Big three games in September then the draw for Euro 2024 qualifying is in October. As far as i can see we don't have a competitive game for six months between September and the start of those qualifiers in March. Clarke will be in charge for the start of that campaign, but he could do with going into that big gap with at least a bit of momentum.

 

This is the real concern. If you look at our defeats under Clarke to any decent side (and even not so decent like Ireland) they are 2 or 3 goal defeats, we aren't even close. The exception was our best result on paper, Austria away (they were in dreadful form but we did what was needed). Our other 2 wins against competitive (ones that regularly qualify) nations were beating a Czech side when they had some weird Czech league select side playing, so we can't really count that. And we beat a Denmark side with 4 or 5 players missing who had qualified. I know 'you can only beat what's in front of you' etc but you have to consider that.

If you look at the defeats to Ukraine, Czechs in the Euros, Croatia, Ireland, Denmark away, they are all at least 2 goal margins where we were never really in the game. You could go further back and include 4 goal defeats to Russia and Belgium defeats too. I certainly wouldn't expect us to beat most of them but I'd at least expect us to be competitive, against any good side we are extremely easy to beat.

What we have shown under Clarke is that we can relatively comfortably beat the diddy sides (something not to be sniffed at given our history). The games against the middle ranking nations like Slovakia and Israel are generally the flip of a coin. And in games against sides who regularly qualify we (under normally circumstances) are generally miles off it and lose badly.

Even with our considerable limitations I always thought Clarke would get us solid and organised so that even if we weren't scoring many goals or beating these sides we'd at least be horrible to play against and be able battle to draws or at worst narrow defeats. That's not really how it's worked out.

[AMMjag]

The prevailing feeling from the Ukraine and Ireland games were that we looked poorly prepared and easy to prepare against - we folded like a deck chair when opposition put any sort of pressure on our full backs. 

The attitude in the latter game especially  to have come so soon after the Ukraine result - was a disgrace with players pulling out of tackles all over the place and coming nowhere close to matching Ireland's work-rate out of possession. I'm not sure Clarke can survive another couple of those performances in September. 

I have some sympathy for him though in that this is still a difficult squad to balance.

I imagine Clarke sees the 3/5 at the back as a necessity not just as a way of fitting Tierney and McTominay into the team, but also because there's an absence of credible wingers in the squad pool (having fallen out with Fraser) to give proper balance to a 4-at-the-back formation. You're looking at Barrie Mackay as the next best available to us and it's hard to imagine us being much more effective at either end of the pitch.

The problem with any 3-5-2 though is that if any kind of good pass is played between the outside centre back and the wing back then it's hard not to concede. That's how Ireland got their second goal and Ukraine, Denmark, Austria, Czech Republic all put similar goals past us. To mitigate that as best as possible you need a settled, consistent defence and we've never had that under Clarke - partly through injury, partly through tinkering with different players. 

The best thing he can do now is pick his best central defence and stick to it as far as possible - for me that's Souttar-Cooper-Tierney who started the Denmark game, and ideally Patterson can sort out some regular game time for himself as he is by some distance the best option at RWB and improves us immeasurably going forward, taking some pressure off Robertson aswell.

Oh and if a good goalie could appear out of nowhere too then that'd be great.

 

 

[General dissaray]

13 minutes ago, AMMjag said:

The prevailing feeling from the Ukraine and Ireland games were that we looked poorly prepared and easy to prepare against - we folded like a deck chair when opposition put any sort of pressure on our full backs. 

The attitude in the latter game especially  to have come so soon after the Ukraine result - was a disgrace with players pulling out of tackles all over the place and coming nowhere close to matching Ireland's work-rate out of possession. I'm not sure Clarke can survive another couple of those performances in September. 

I have some sympathy for him though in that this is still a difficult squad to balance.

I imagine Clarke sees the 3/5 at the back as a necessity not just as a way of fitting Tierney and McTominay into the team, but also because there's an absence of credible wingers in the squad pool (having fallen out with Fraser) to give proper balance to a 4-at-the-back formation. You're looking at Barrie Mackay as the next best available to us and it's hard to imagine us being much more effective at either end of the pitch.

The problem with any 3-5-2 though is that if any kind of good pass is played between the outside centre back and the wing back then it's hard not to concede. That's how Ireland got their second goal and Ukraine, Denmark, Austria, Czech Republic all put similar goals past us. To mitigate that as best as possible you need a settled, consistent defence and we've never had that under Clarke - partly through injury, partly through tinkering with different players. 

The best thing he can do now is pick his best central defence and stick to it as far as possible - for me that's Souttar-Cooper-Tierney who started the Denmark game, and ideally Patterson can sort out some regular game time for himself as he is by some distance the best option at RWB and improves us immeasurably going forward, taking some pressure off Robertson aswell.

Oh and if a good goalie could appear out of nowhere too then that'd be great.

 

 

Naw wouldn't be looking at Barry McKay as next avalible winger at all avaliable to us

I would be sitting down with Sirki Dembele a guy brought up in Govan that will be playing in EPL for Bournemouth next year

And I would be begging him to play for Scotland over the Ivory Coast like his treacherous wee brother has decided to play for

Also would be looking at Scotty Wright to bring into the team if he is starting becoming a regular at Rangers 

And don't forget James Forrest is probably gonna be back anyway fit and able

Clarke and Fraser sat down together there isn't a problem he just never picked him

Out them all he is probably our best winger but would be nice to see Dembele involved especially if he is playing in EPL

Edited June 15, 2022 by General dissaray