Time to go Steve Clarke

[Orbix]

1 hour ago, velo army said:

Given that Gilmour was given his first start as a 19 year old against England in a major finals, Patterson was played in spite of having only a handful of first team appearances for his club and Hickey has a couple of caps at the age of 19 then I don't think that being unwilling to blood youth is something you can level at Clarke.

I disagree. Firstly that Clarke bloods in and plays youth. I’d also argue that the nature of the starts he does give are mainly reactionary. Greg Taylor gets his first start because he’s left footed and Andy Robertson pulls up last minute against Belgium, and given the familiarity, Clarke trusts him. Gilmour to fend off complaints about a shite display against the Czech Republic, and the only real example of Clarke continuing that on. 

.Does Hickey’s first start being in a playoff semifinal point to a sensible or well thought out process? Is three u20’s over the 35 games Clarke has been in charge good enough? 14 u23’s, some of whom were inherited from McLeish?
 

As a current example. Ramsay is being touted for a move to Liverpool after a great season with Aberdeen, but isn’t included in squads to acclimatise, isn’t going to get capped, and is nowhere near a start.  It’s not just Clarke, Turnbull is a good example from when he was at Motherwell.. It has got worse under Clarke though, and when he talks about ‘freshening it up’ with 25 and 26 year olds it’s worrying for the cycle continuing on.

I mentioned Wales because I’d properly compared him to them, and it’s not great; as a reminder, Ethan Ampadu is 21 and has 35  caps.

I did up to Armenia. Gary Speed because he’s widely touted as starting the great Welsh revival. Ryan Giggs and Malky Mackay are both c***s. 

That’s 86% of Clarke’s starting XI being 24 or older across his tenure. 51 starting places for youth.

.

 

[KingRocketman II]

Clarke's comment below. In summary, it is not the players and not the tactics but we got pumped by Ireland (and Ukraine) because we couldn't handle teams getting in about us. Wow. 

“The result and the performance, no, nobody could see it coming,” 

However, the manager is adamant matters of individual personnel and tactics were not key to the display against Ireland.

“People can pull it apart If they want. If they think that’s what was wrong with the game then I would suggest that maybe they’re not right.”

"Ireland got about us and we couldn’t handle it for some reason. So that’s what I need to go away and look at.”

"For me, the biggest thing is we had disappointment [against Ukraine] and then did OK, and then it’s disappointment again. I have to analyse that and find out why that happened.”

[Loominous]

6 hours ago, velo army said:

I wonder what he's actually like in the dressing room. He does seem like a charismatic guy, not in the Strachan mould, but certainly strikes me as having a quiet gravitas about him. He's also known as a good man manager, but I wonder if his team talks need to perhaps have a bit more fear about them. I remember when we won the 1st division under Lambie so many of our goals were scored just before half time or before the final whistle, as players were fucking terrified of going in to the dressing room to get a dressing down. I'm not advocating hairdryer treatment, but I want him to put a rocket under them so that we at least start games with some kind of intensity.

"You’s don’t get the real one. No he’s good, fair - he’s got a presence in the room as well he can be a wee bit scary at times but I think that’s his kind of natural persona, that’s why he’s such a good manager."

That's what John McGinn said when about him before in the pre-match stuff before the Ireland game.

4 hours ago, KingRocketman II said:

Clarke's comment below. In summary, it is not the players and not the tactics but we got pumped by Ireland (and Ukraine) because we couldn't handle teams getting in about us. Wow. 

“The result and the performance, no, nobody could see it coming,” 

However, the manager is adamant matters of individual personnel and tactics were not key to the display against Ireland.

“People can pull it apart If they want. If they think that’s what was wrong with the game then I would suggest that maybe they’re not right.”

"Ireland got about us and we couldn’t handle it for some reason. So that’s what I need to go away and look at.”

"For me, the biggest thing is we had disappointment [against Ukraine] and then did OK, and then it’s disappointment again. I have to analyse that and find out why that happened.”

I think the performance stemmed from the players and not the manager. Steve Clarke seemed unable to explain the performance and I agreed with what Peter Grant and Willie Miller said broadly on that topic on Sportsound if anyone listened to that. Steve Clarke will have to take the hit for it because he's the manager, but the players owe him a big performance on Tuesday.

[lau03143]

5 hours ago, KingRocketman II said:

Clarke's comment below. In summary, it is not the players and not the tactics but we got pumped by Ireland (and Ukraine) because we couldn't handle teams getting in about us. Wow. 

“The result and the performance, no, nobody could see it coming,” 

However, the manager is adamant matters of individual personnel and tactics were not key to the display against Ireland.

“People can pull it apart If they want. If they think that’s what was wrong with the game then I would suggest that maybe they’re not right.”

"Ireland got about us and we couldn’t handle it for some reason. So that’s what I need to go away and look at.”

"For me, the biggest thing is we had disappointment [against Ukraine] and then did OK, and then it’s disappointment again. I have to analyse that and find out why that happened.”

It's a telling statement - Rangers under Gerard were like that, and Tavernier used to come out and say something similar.

It's been clear the past three games, that the two teams that pressed us got a lot of success. We have the players playing at the level where they should be able to play out of tight, high press situations. So would point to a panic, or mindset problem, which Clarke alludes to.

[2426255]

9 hours ago, velo army said:

I know Clarke said yesterday that the Ireland result was down to "something else" and I'm fairly sure he was protecting his players when he said that. I'm fairly sure he knows what he thinks happened, but wants to keep that between him and the players.

I agree with this, in my view he wanted to keep his counsel because if he spoke it would sell out his players.

9 hours ago, velo army said:

People have spoken about an attitude of believing their own hype, and Robbo spoke to a psychological frailty in the team. If it's the latter Clarke will know. 

It's hard to pinpoint exactly probably as we're not inside their camp. When did people speak about the players believing their own hype? I haven't seen that

[2426255]

11 minutes ago, lau03143 said:

It's been clear the past three games, that the two teams that pressed us got a lot of success. We have the players playing at the level where they should be able to play out of tight, high press situations. So would point to a panic, or mindset problem, which Clarke alludes to.

It is a fair point. Even in games where we have survived sustained pressure under a high press (Austria away), we have often required Craig Gordon to help us out. Either you try to play out of the press or you go long, I think we went long - but I haven't seen the game back so not 100% on that.. At least we won't have that to contend with a high press against Armenia. 

[2426255]

Quote

The result and the performance, no, nobody could see it coming, I back these players 100%. I back them 100% because they’ve been fantastic for the country. It’s two big blows but sometimes life isn’t always nice all the time and straightforward. We’ll come back. They just have to dig in now and get a result in Armenia on Tuesday night. It’s just about getting a win.

[On criticism of of team selection and tactics] I won’t hear it and I won’t read it. People can pull it apart If they want, if they think that’s what was wrong with the game then I would suggest that maybe they’re not right.

[On the hangover from the Ukraine defeat] I don’t think so, I really don’t. I felt the game last Wednesday [against Armenia] was a good game for them because they were able to dominate possession. Ireland got about us and we couldn’t handle it for some reason. So that’s what I need to go away and look at.

[Armenia] We have to win in Armenia, it’s that simple now and it might be an ugly one or might be a pretty one – but we need to win. Must-wins are not really in my vocabulary, but we have to bounce back from what’s been another disappointment. For me, the biggest thing is we had disappointment [against Ukraine] and then did OK, and then it’s disappointment again. I have to analyse that and find out why that happened.

Steve Clarke

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jun/12/scotland-steve-clarke-republic-of-ireland-armenia

 

[HuttonDressedAsLahm]

2 hours ago, lau03143 said:

It's a telling statement - Rangers under Gerard were like that, and Tavernier used to come out and say something similar.

It's been clear the past three games, that the two teams that pressed us got a lot of success. We have the players playing at the level where they should be able to play out of tight, high press situations. So would point to a panic, or mindset problem, which Clarke alludes to.

I think we only do when Gilmour, McGregor and Tierney are all available and fit.  It's no surprise that our best performances came in a period when all were available and we easily passed ourselves out of the press.  I can think of times where we did it against Austria (twice) and Israel.

In the last three games, I can barely think of a single time we have done so.  Only against Armenia did we have centre backs passing through the lines.  Also, we've barely had a midfielders beat a man centrally in any of the games.  For all the mockery that Radio Scotland made of Duffy, who is appalling with the ball at his feet, Hanley isn't much better.

We've always had a mindset problem, but right now we have an issue with availability, fitness and form, which then manifests itself mentally.

Edited June 13, 2022 by HuttonDressedAsLahm

[Bing.McCrosby]

2 hours ago, HuttonDressedAsLahm said:

I think we only do when Gilmour, McGregor and Tierney are all available and fit.  It's no surprise that our best performances came in a period when all were available and we easily passed ourselves out of the press.  I can think of times where we did it against Austria (twice) and Israel.

In the last three games, I can barely think of a single time we have done so.  Only against Armenia did we have centre backs passing through the lines.  Also, we've barely had a midfielders beat a man centrally in any of the games.  For all the mockery that Radio Scotland made of Duffy, who is appalling with the ball at his feet, Hanley isn't much better.

We've always had a mindset problem, but right now we have an issue with availability, fitness and form, which then manifests itself mentally.

The team we had out vs ROI was man for man superior to them.

[ManBearPig]

1 hour ago, BingMcCrosby said:

The team we had out vs ROI was man for man superior to them.

Whilst Ireland's players may not be very good, at least they're not a bunch of spineless shitebags.

[Clown Job]

22 hours ago, General dissaray said:

£400 000 a year he isn't going to be interested in that when he can get top club jobs in top 5 leagues around world on three or four times that wages

You have no idea what he would be interested in 

Only way to find out with any manager is asking them 

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, Clown Job said:

You have no idea what he would be interested in 

Only way to find out with any manager is asking them 

Exactly and a club job is alot more work, by comparison an international job is part time. So the wages aren't comparable, an international position may well be preferable for someone who's a bit older and already wealthy.

[General dissaray]

1 hour ago, Clown Job said:

You have no idea what he would be interested in 

Only way to find out with any manager is asking them 

So why wasn't he interviewed the last time he was unemployed and we needed a manager?

Pretty sure if he was it would have been a magor news story,but it never happened cos Scotland can't afford someone like him

Still no answers off how we fund extra money to do what Ireland did either off anybody 

As to be expected in here

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, General dissaray said:

So why wasn't he interviewed the last time he was unemployed and we needed a manager?

Pretty sure if he was it would have been a magor news story,but it never happened cos Scotland can't afford someone like him

Still no answers off how we fund extra money to do what Ireland did either off anybody 

As to be expected in here

What a stupid post, so we should only go for managers who we have previously interviewed?

What are you even talking about.

Hes a good potential manager now, he may or may not be interested. What relevance is it if he was interviewed for the post in the past or not.

[General dissaray]

33 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

What a stupid post, so we should only go for managers who we have previously interviewed?

What are you even talking about.

Hes a good potential manager now, he may or may not be interested. What relevance is it if he was interviewed for the post in the past or not.

We never interviewed him that is the point,because he has absolutely zero interest in the Scotland job and the paltry earnings avaliable 

What a stupid reply more like

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, General dissaray said:

We never interviewed him that is the point,because he has absolutely zero interest in the Scotland job and the paltry earnings avaliable 

What a stupid reply more like

So you know him personally?

[General dissaray]

8 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

So you know him personally?

I don't need to know him at all,to know he isn't interested in the Scotland job or any other top foreign manager 

Scottish football is mocked at by most foreign coaches and they aren't interested in it and working with the alien set up that is the SFA when there own nation has one governing body integrated and we haven't 

And on top off the fact our players are perennial bottle merchants they aren't gonna fill and ordarlyque even if Clarke walks

Edited June 13, 2022 by General dissaray

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, General dissaray said:

I don't need to know him at all,to know he isn't interested in the Scotland job

Heres the thing, you actually would. This isn't up for debate, its an undisputed fact.

What your actually giving is an opinion on the thoughts of someone you don't know, have never met. Which is worth absolutely nothing.

[St Innes]

21 hours ago, Orbix said:

Is this the thread to post in if you’ve tried to understand how Wales can qualify for tournaments but Scotland can’t, and think there’s something in Clarke being too afraid to properly blood in youth? 

When did Wales last qualify for a World cup?

[Richey Edwards]

1 minute ago, St Innes said:

When did Wales last qualify for a World cup?

2022.