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Time to go Steve Clarke


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10 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

From memory, I think McGinn hit the bar and then the Czech keeper made a brilliant save right at the start of the second half.

Hendry clipped the bar and the good save averted what would have been a comedy own goal.

The Czechs also had a couple of decent chances during this brief spell.  Most of Scotland's best ones came outside of it.

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12 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

Nothing I'm saying is about McLeish's ability (or lack of) as a manager. I'm talking about the relative strength of squad available to Clarke vs previous Scotland managers and whether it's fair or reasonable to hold Clarke to a significantly higher standard or expectations because he has a significantly better squad to work with.

I'm comparing to McLeish because he was the previous manager and worked with squads filled with largely the same players.

 

And I think what our learned colleague is saying is that this is exactly the point. Clarke should be held to a higher standard. If folk were saying that Eck did a great job then your bringing him up would have more relevance. Nobody wanted him, it was a mercy when he was relieved of his duties and we could get a proper coach in. 

Clarke has done well but at times we haven't looked good. The euros performances were ok (Croatia game aside) but it's fine to ask questions. Saying he's better than his addled predecessor is damning him with faint praise.

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16 minutes ago, velo army said:

And I think what our learned colleague is saying is that this is exactly the point. Clarke should be held to a higher standard. If folk were saying that Eck did a great job then your bringing him up would have more relevance. Nobody wanted him, it was a mercy when he was relieved of his duties and we could get a proper coach in. 

Clarke has done well but at times we haven't looked good. The euros performances were ok (Croatia game aside) but it's fine to ask questions. Saying he's better than his addled predecessor is damning him with faint praise.

And again, I'm not saying anything about whether Clarke is better than McLeish - he obviously is, I think everyone agrees on that.

I'm not talking about whether he should be held to McLeish's personal standard. I'm talking about whether Clarke's squad should be held to a significantly higher standard than McLeish's squads, based purely on the available ability.

Clarke's resources are better but I don't think they're that much better.

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Just now, Gordon EF said:

Nothing I'm saying is about McLeish's ability (or lack of) as a manager. I'm talking about the relative strength of squad available to Clarke vs previous Scotland managers and whether it's fair or reasonable to hold Clarke to a significantly higher standard or expectations because he has a significantly better squad to work with.

I'm comparing to McLeish because he was the previous manager and worked with squads filled with largely the same players.

With the 4 players you mentioned coming in particularly gilmour their all better than what we had at that time.

Its been over 2 years since mcleish left.

We've not lost any top players in that time. And none are close to retirement, bar maybe gordon or marshall.

So the rest of the young guys coming into or before their prime are now 2 years more experienced.

Add that all together and I don't think its at all unrealistic to say the squad and team is significantly better.

 

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55 minutes ago, Johnstoun said:

I’d say that none of our current strikers are as good as Naismith or Miller, and our goalies are close to needing Zimmer frames, but we’re better elsewhere, so it’s swings and roundabouts.

Would agree on Naismith but Miller is a bit of a stretch.

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On 23/06/2021 at 15:05, BingMcCrosby said:

Nobody's saying we want Clarke taken out the back and shot.

Just a new manager with better ideas. 

Bing, you'll argue anything or shift the goalposts so you don't have to admit you're wrong by turning this into a critical evaluation of Steve Clarke.

The bottom line when addressing this thread is that there is nothing in Steve Clarkes tenure as Scotland manager that warrants a fair minded person to call for him to be sacked.

You made this thread with that as your subject, got it wrong and are continuing to try to hoodwink people that this is a thread was designed as a critical evaluation of the job Steve Clarke is doing. You are nitpicking and questioning the most successful Scotland manager in 25 years. :lol: 

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30 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

With the 4 players you mentioned coming in particularly gilmour their all better than what we had at that time.

Its been over 2 years since mcleish left.

We've not lost any top players in that time. And none are close to retirement, bar maybe gordon or marshall.

So the rest of the young guys coming into or before their prime are now 2 years more experienced.

Add that all together and I don't think its at all unrealistic to say the squad and team is significantly better.

 

Worth remembering that Clarke played a part in making the squad and team "significantly better" (in your view) by persuading Dykes and Adams to play for Scotland.

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8 minutes ago, Johnstoun said:

Naismith a better footballer but Miller scored more goals, and Scotland could do with a poacher.

Miller did not score nearly as many Scotland goals as he should have.

Had he been a better finisher, we wouldn't have gone so long without qualifying for tournaments.

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I’d say that none of our current strikers are as good as Naismith or Miller, and our goalies are close to needing Zimmer frames, but we’re better elsewhere, so it’s swings and roundabouts.

I’d say Adams is a better English premier league striker than Miller ever was. Would be looking for more goals from him internationally but his performances have been pretty good.
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2 hours ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

From memory, I think McGinn hit the bar and then the Czech keeper made a brilliant save right at the start of the second half.

Think Dykes had a stabbed effort too that he put straight at the keeper

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8 hours ago, 2426255 said:

You can't wait for the results to turn so you can stick the boot back in, can you?     

Steve Clarke has reformed this squad from the molten mess Alex McLeish left behind. Dykes and Adams didn't just fall from the sky, Steve Clarke deserves some credit for both of them joining the Scotland set up and also some credit for keeping one eye on our future by giving chances to Gilmour and Patterson plus Ferguson, Turnbull and Nisbet for that matter.

Clarke has made this squad better, made it into a good team with spirit, a structure and foundations albeit with some advantages other predecessors haven't had. I think he is due a lot of credit for the way he has done his work and maybe if you let go of your need to be right you would see that one day.

 

1 hour ago, JamesM82 said:

Worth remembering that Clarke played a part in making the squad and team "significantly better" (in your view) by persuading Dykes and Adams to play for Scotland.

I had already remembered that.

5 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

Yeah that's a fair point

Thanks.

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Just now, lubo_blaha said:


I’d say Adams is a better English premier league striker than Miller ever was. Would be looking for more goals from him internationally but his performances have been pretty good.

Its certainly early days to be writing adams off in any case. I think if he were to move clubs and play every week we might see a different player for us.

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Just now, BingMcCrosby said:

Its certainly early days to be writing adams off in any case. I think if he were to move clubs and play every week we might see a different player for us.

Che Adams is doing fine, the team is doing fine - no one needs to be sacked. 

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29 minutes ago, Gordopolis said:

Think Dykes had a stabbed effort too that he put straight at the keeper

We were already 2 behind at that point.

The Czechs had two good chances at the start of the half.  We then had the effort off the top of the bar, as well as the skied attempted clearance by their defender.

"Many chances" to equalise is pushing it.  0-2 was at least as likely as 1-1 until it duly became the former.

Edited by Monkey Tennis
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1 hour ago, Johnstoun said:

Naismith a better footballer but Miller scored more goals, and Scotland could do with a poacher.

Miller averaged 0.26 goals a game for Scotland (1 in 4). Hardly poacher material, and actually slightly worse than Dykes' current 0.3 goals/game.

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25 minutes ago, Gordopolis said:

Think Dykes had a stabbed effort too that he put straight at the keeper

that's the effort that stands out for me as our best chance. He seemed to hit as he was falling but I don't recall there being any thing that caused him to fall or be off balance aside from connecting with the ball 🤣

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Kenny Miller was utter shite.

I have a couple of question for those banging on about the performances.

Could you remind me when international football wasn't a turgid shitfest?

Isn't international football just about getting results and qualifying for tournaments?

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