Time to go Steve Clarke

[2426255]

On 08/09/2021 at 09:26, stressball said:

That’s the fun sucked out of a win and being only 3 wins away from a play-off and a potential thrashing off of Spain.

Out of curiosity NumberMan did you want Strachan out?

No, not at any point did I want Gordon Strachan out and was a little sad when he left.

Looking back, Alex McLeish in his second tenure was the only manager in recent times I was happy to see go. I don't deny that I have a massive boner for Steve Clarke. I like his style, his loyalty, strength of character and his intelligence. When it comes down to it I would want to play for him and I think we can see from the players. I'm not a Kilmarnock fan, nor am I from Ayrshire. I grew up a Hearts fan.

Great manager, great man in my book.

Edited September 9, 2021 by 2426255

[Jambomo]

23 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

I did not. Looking back, Alex McLeish in his second tenure was the only manager in recent times I really wanted to go. I won't deny it though I have a man crush on Steve Clarke. I like his style, his loyalty and strength of character and when it comes down to it I would want to play for him and I think we can see that in the team.

One of the big differences I think, from that time, is that the team really look like they are enjoying playing for Scotland. Previously (especially McLeish’s second spell) they were not turning up and look like they hated it. It makes a big difference.

[2426255]

I think you'd have to blind not to see Steve Clarke is building something and making progress and doing a lot of things that fans want him to do. Did anyone hear his words about players from Motherwell, Hibs and Aberdeen playing against Austria and how it reflects on the level of Scottish Football? Moreover, he has made a point to bring the young guys into the fold, built a great group atmosphere and on top of that got us over the line for Euro 2020 and kept us fighting for the World Cup with a realistic chance of the playoffs. Sell outs at Hampden? This is obviously the right man.

And the guy who started the thread was just crying because progress wasn't to his timescale.

 

Edited September 9, 2021 by 2426255

[Bing.McCrosby]

On 08/09/2021 at 11:48, wastecoatwilly said:

Clarke has got a major influence from Mourinho the edge and balance of the team's he picks are always on the back foot.
Playing 2 up front plus having McGinn supporting the two shows he can adapt to a more forward thinking system.
The Israel game should show how far this team has come under Clarke in the last two years,the progress has been very slow for some he needs to keep adapting and find a style of play for the players he has available.

I think that's the thing, we need to be more proactive rather than  reactive at home especially. 

First good win in a long while, but it was an important one.

Edited September 9, 2021 by BingMcCrosby

[2426255]

 

On 23/06/2021 at 09:08, BingMcCrosby said:

Overall performances and results have been poor.

We managed to get to this tournament by an excellent draw with serbia. A game we should have won in the 90mins. That along with the England game is our only good performances under Clarke.

Hes produced some good performances when our backs to the wall. But thats it. He's unable to win games at home, we always look like the away team.

He got us to a tournament for the first time in 23 years, but we were not good. 2 home games and 0 points, its unforgivable.

Hes already made a terrible start to the next qualifying. Its time we parted ways, hes never going to be a good manager for us.

Last night as Souness says was dark ages stuff. Also the wrong team and tactics. 

But the worst thing of all was the reluctance to change things. We were on top in spells for the first half. Croatia started to control the game and we left the players out there to rot. Rather than freshen things up and get back at them. 

The changes were to litte to late and now were out. Arguably the worst team in the tournament.

Yes turkey and North Macedonia lost all 3 games, but neither played a home game. And we played 2. 

Nothing against the guy, I want every scotland manager to succeed. But its been poor overall. It really has.

Strachan when we went deserved to go, but he had the team playing better than this. Were going nowhere.

 

 

10 hours ago, BingMcCrosby said:

I think that's the thing, we need to be more proactive rather than  reactive at home especially. 

First good win in a long while, but it was an important one.

You're one to talk about being less reactive, this thread is about as fine an example as I've ever seen of knee jerk, blinkered, reactionary thinking. Let your shameful climb down begin. 

Also funny how Bing has tried to pass this off as just a critical evaluation of Steve Clarke, give me a break. You said he was going nowhere, time for him to go and were miles off the mark, at least man up and admit it.

Edited September 10, 2021 by 2426255

[KingRocketman II]

I mentioned on another thread that I consider we have had four great results and performances under Clarke - Serbia play-off, Netherlands (pre-Euro friendly), England and now Austria. Each of the first three great performances were followed by pretty rank performances and we haven't pushed on which has been hugely frustrating given a) the clear ability the team has shown on those occasions and b) the players we currently have. The Serbia performance and qualification would have seemed like the perfect platform but we were really flat and disjointed following on from that. 

Let's hope we now push on and follow up with a good performance and a win against Israel. Previous patterns suggest that may not be the case but here's hoping that this time it finally is an upward turn. Jury remains out on the manager. 

[Bing.McCrosby]

3 hours ago, KingRocketman II said:

I mentioned on another thread that I consider we have had four great results and performances under Clarke - Serbia play-off, Netherlands (pre-Euro friendly), England and now Austria. Each of the first three great performances were followed by pretty rank performances and we haven't pushed on which has been hugely frustrating given a) the clear ability the team has shown on those occasions and b) the players we currently have. The Serbia performance and qualification would have seemed like the perfect platform but we were really flat and disjointed following on from that. 

Let's hope we now push on and follow up with a good performance and a win against Israel. Previous patterns suggest that may not be the case but here's hoping that this time it finally is an upward turn. Jury remains out on the manager. 

I dont think a friendly counts for much tbh.

He needs to find a way to win as favourites, more than we have at any rate.

[craigkillie]

Have we not won every single game we've been favourites for since he took over, perhaps with the exception of Israel at home in the Nations League. Not sure if we were favourites at home to Austria.

[Ewan8472]

On 08/09/2021 at 10:48, wastecoatwilly said:

Clarke has got a major influence from Mourinho the edge and balance of the team's he picks are always on the back foot.
Playing 2 up front plus having McGinn supporting the two shows he can adapt to a more forward thinking system.
The Israel game should show how far this team has come under Clarke in the last two years,the progress has been very slow for some he needs to keep adapting and find a style of play for the players he has available.

You don't think #sr##l have improved over the past two years ?

Unfortunately I do not think we will be putting three past them 

and Hanley is suspended

[Ewan8472]

13 hours ago, KingRocketman II said:

I mentioned on another thread that I consider we have had four great results and performances under Clarke - Serbia play-off, Netherlands (pre-Euro friendly), England and now Austria. Each of the first three great performances were followed by pretty rank performances and we haven't pushed on which has been hugely frustrating given a) the clear ability the team has shown on those occasions and b) the players we currently have. The Serbia performance and qualification would have seemed like the perfect platform but we were really flat and disjointed following on from that. 

 

IIRC the first game after Serbia we played fairly well , created quite a few chances but ...

Dykes was suspended for one thing

[Ewan8472]

13 hours ago, KingRocketman II said:

I mentioned on another thread that I consider we have had four great results and performances under Clarke - Serbia play-off, Netherlands (pre-Euro friendly), England and now Austria. Each of the first three great performances were followed by pretty rank performances and we haven't pushed on which has been hugely frustrating given a) the clear ability the team has shown on those occasions and b) the players we currently have. The Serbia performance and qualification would have seemed like the perfect platform but we were really flat and disjointed following on from that. 

Let's hope we now push on and follow up with a good performance and a win against Israel. Previous patterns suggest that may not be the case but here's hoping that this time it finally is an upward turn. Jury remains out on the manager. 

Robertson does not have much success against his opposite number

[Ewan8472]

7 minutes ago, Ewan8472 said:

You don't think #sr##l have improved over the past two years ?

Unfortunately I do not think we will be putting three past them 

and Hanley is suspended

McTominay , Jack , Fraser and Forrest might be back though

[eez-eh]

3 hours ago, craigkillie said:

Have we not won every single game we've been favourites for since he took over, perhaps with the exception of Israel at home in the Nations League. Not sure if we were favourites at home to Austria.

Not sure if you mean bookies favourites, or just the concept of being “favourites”, but Flashscores still has the bet365 odds for all the games so… we were bookies favourites in the four games against Israel (3 draws and 1 defeat) and the defeats to Slovakia and the Czechs - albeit the latter two there was very little in it.

Edited September 10, 2021 by eez-eh

[craigkillie]

Surprised we were bookies favorites away to Israel or Slovakia, and didn't realise the same for the Czech game even with it being at Hampden.

[Bing.McCrosby]

38 minutes ago, eez-eh said:

Not sure if you mean bookies favourites, or just the concept of being “favourites”, but Flashscores still has the bet365 odds for all the games so… we were bookies favourites in the four games against Israel (3 draws and 1 defeat) and the defeats to Slovakia and the Czechs - albeit the latter two there was very little in it.

So yeah, as I was saying the games we were favourites for. Thats what we need to be winning, and winning well. 

Just looking at the previous czech results against us we were obviously the favourites in the euro game. 

[2426255]

On 23/06/2021 at 10:23, George Parr said:

We'll take 3 points from the triple header and not a stitch more.

 

On 24/06/2021 at 21:26, Monkey Tennis said:

Our recent record is poor, we've just flopped badly in a tournament and have already started the campaign in question very poorly.

Yet, you see no reason why we won't qualify.  Why do people allow support for a team to rob them of critical faculties?

 

On 25/06/2021 at 14:28, KingRocketman II said:

What do folks think is going to happen between now and the next 5 months or so for the team to kick on and build on the "tournament experience"? Absolutely feck all in my view and we will see the same results and inconsistent in-match performances. 

 

On 27/06/2021 at 09:53, Binos said:

Austria Denmark will serve us up

 

On 27/06/2021 at 21:22, BingMcCrosby said:

I hope im completely wrong and we go out and play brilliantly away to Denmark and Austria and win one and draw one. And ill be the first to hold up my hands and admit I got it wrong. 

But I just can't see it at all.

[Monkey Tennis]

38 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

I'm not convinced that your wee list of quotes does what you think it does.

My own one, for instance, suggests that the phrase "there's no reason why we won't qualify" is a daft one.  Despite us now being much better placed, that remains a daft phrase.

You even find time to laugh at someone saying he couldn't see us managing a win and a draw from the Denmark and Austria games.  Even afterwards, I can't see it either because it didn't happen.

 

Earlier on in these discussions, you argued strongly in favour of Clarke.  I didn't agree with much of what you said, but it was rational enough.

Following these latest games, however, you seem to have lost your senses, lashing out madly in a way that just makes you look stupid and childish.  It's been a weirdly steep descent.

[2426255]

Back for more Monkey Tennis? Good, you love it. Thought you'd had enough after the Israel v Austria game.

6 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

My own one, for instance, suggests that the phrase "there's no reason why we won't qualify" is a daft one.  Despite us now being much better placed, that remains a daft phrase.

Why's that? Are you going to shapeshift into a pedant now and say there are many reasons we might not qualify such as Scotland being hit by a comet? or Covid19 striking down all our first team players?

6 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

You even find time to laugh at someone saying he couldn't see us managing a win and a draw from the Denmark and Austria games.  Even afterwards, I can't see it either because it didn't happen.

That's being fussy, you're right we didn't achieve four points but it's the sentiment - he won't hold his hands up because he won't admit he is wrong and will cling on to anything in order not to be wrong.

6 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Earlier on in these discussions, you argued strongly in favour of Clarke.  I didn't agree with much of what you said, but it was rational enough.

I was fair and I tried to present you with a rational argument, but I didn't feel I was getting through and was being presented with irrational, emotional initial takes added to with pedantry and stubbornness,  so I just like to call people up when they get it wrong now and I can simply use their words instead of writing long arguments.

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by 2426255

[2426255]

18 hours ago, eez-eh said:

Not sure if you mean bookies favourites, or just the concept of being “favourites”, but Flashscores still has the bet365 odds for all the games so… we were bookies favourites in the four games against Israel (3 draws and 1 defeat) and the defeats to Slovakia and the Czechs - albeit the latter two there was very little in it.

 

16 hours ago, BingMcCrosby said:

So yeah, as I was saying the games we were favourites for. Thats what we need to be winning, and winning well. 

Just looking at the previous czech results against us we were obviously the favourites in the euro game. 

So I looked at these two and thought why not take their argument and see how it stands up. I got the bet365 betting odds from Flashscores just like Eez-eh, but I'm not a betting man so if I've made a mistake then correct me. I'm don't mind taking another source of betting numbers and running them instead.

I put the odds in a table as a single digit instead of a fraction to make it easier for non betting nerds to follow and here's are the findings. The favorites are represented by the lowest number.

• We drew two and lost one when we were favourites all versus Israel. 

Our overall record shows we do well when we're favourites winning 8/11 games and especially if you accept Israel as being undervalued. The Israel playoff semi was counted as a draw.

• We drew one and lost three coin flip games.

Our overall record shows this is where we struggle, with home games against Russia, Croatia, Czech Republic and one game away to both Israel and Slovakia where we didn't manage a single win.

• We drew one when we were underdogs. 

Our overall record shows we do well as underdogs with 2 wins, 3 draws and 4 defeats against side such as England, Denmark, Czech Republic, Austria, Russia, Belgium. The Serbia playoff final was counted as a draw.

• Israel are improving.
• The argument would be better if you said we need to win more games that are 50:50.

If we look at performances in these games, Israel, Slovakia and the Czech Republic were very even and could have gone either way or finished in a draw, but we performed below our norm against Croatia and Russia in Glasgow.

References:

https://www.flashscore.co.uk/team/scotland/fZRU25WH/results/

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by 2426255

[Bing.McCrosby]

51 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

I'm not convinced that your wee list of quotes does what you think it does.

My own one, for instance, suggests that the phrase "there's no reason why we won't qualify" is a daft one.  Despite us now being much better placed, that remains a daft phrase.

You even find time to laugh at someone saying he couldn't see us managing a win and a draw from the Denmark and Austria games.  Even afterwards, I can't see it either because it didn't happen.

 

Earlier on in these discussions, you argued strongly in favour of Clarke.  I didn't agree with much of what you said, but it was rational enough.

Following these latest games, however, you seem to have lost your senses, lashing out madly in a way that just makes you look stupid and childish.  It's been a weirdly steep descent.

Not in a jokey way, I actually think you may be talking to a child!

Just stick him on ignore 

Edited September 11, 2021 by BingMcCrosby