Time to go Steve Clarke

[Meldrew]

2 minutes ago, Lex said:

 

Well the world rankings and seeding system for a start. They have never qualified for anything out of the UEFA system. If we are now accepting that we aren’t better than them then our problems are worse than I thought.

 

rankings are a nonsense, the USA are currently the 10th best team in the world because they beat Haiti, Martinique, Jamaica, Qatar, Canada and Mexico, which was probably the only decent result of the 6 mentioned.

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, Lex said:

 

Well the world rankings and seeding system for a start. They have never qualified for anything out of the UEFA system. If we are now accepting that we aren’t better than them then our problems are worse than I thought.

 

Israel have a few very good players who would walk into our team. Zahavi, Dabbur and definitely Solomon. But overall were a much stronger squad, we have alot more players who would walk into their team. The fact we can never find a way to outplay them under clarke is damming. 

[Ewan8472]

IMHO since we beat the      of Palestine 3 - 2 at Hampden

They , at least defensively , have improved significantly

[lubo_blaha]

I've thought for years now that people vastly over rate our squad. Our goalies are average at best, we have no top class players in the final third - whether that be a creative player or striker, and some very limited centre backs. We have 2 excellent left backs, but clearly only 1 can play in preferred position, and a bunch of midfielders who are full of energy and can retain the ball to some extent, but don't really offer much cover defensively or attacking creativity. The end result is last night - concede easy goals, don't score goals, but then have phases where we pass the ball around a wee bit.
All that said, I still think we are underperforming in terms of getting results. Looking at that run of our last 10 results we should still be able to pick up 2 or 3 extra draws or wins. If anything we've been fortunate to get the results we got, the draw with Austria for example was totally undeserved. The draw with England was great - although you could probably file that in the 'In a derby form goes out the window' category.
If Clarke had been in charge before the Nations League was invented I think there's a good chance he'd be on the verge of the sack now, he's benefitted from a ridiculously easy qualification route to a 24 team Euros, and even then we needed 2 penalty shoot-outs. Messing up the previous Nations League group was also a massive blunder which he got off with because it came just after us qualifying. That was an amazing chance to get ourselves a WC play-off and we blew it.
I wouldn't have given him a long contract, I'd have waited until the end of this campaign and then decided whether to give him the Euros campaign or not. I don't really see any signs of a style of play being developed or any measurable progress.

If the format from Euro 2016 was in place, we would’ve got a play-off place for finishing third in the group and probably played a team of Serbia’s quality.

[Monkey Tennis]

11 hours ago, 2426255 said:

Some people need a reality check as to what they're expecting, our national football team isn't in the same position it was in the 70's, 80's and 90's.

 

This sentiment really pisses me off.

Of course we know times have changed.  It doesn't make performances like last night's acceptable. 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Monkey Tennis

[2426255]

2 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

This sentiment really pisses me off.

Of course we know times have changed.  It doesn't make performances like last night's acceptable. 

Does it make our overall performance and position to date in World Cup Qualifying acceptable though?

Edited September 2, 2021 by 2426255

[Monkey Tennis]

7 hours ago, 2426255 said:

Does it make our overall performance and position to date in World Cup Qualifying acceptable though?

Absolutely not.

Wednesday's result wasn't calamitous - it was expected.  The performance was for the most part, awful though.

Prior to the Euros, however, we'd already made a really lousy start to the World Cup campaign.  

I'm not even sure what point you're struggling to make here.

[2426255]

3 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Absolutely not.

Wednesday's result wasn't calamitous - it was expected.  The performance was for the most part, awful though.

Prior to the Euros, however, we'd already made a really lousy start to the World Cup campaign.  

I'm not even sure what point you're struggling to make here.

So at what points since the 90's ended have our performances and results met your expectations?

Edited September 3, 2021 by 2426255

[Monkey Tennis]

2 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

So at what point since the 90's have our performances and results met your expectations?

Not often. Once more, what's your point?

[2426255]

7 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Not often. Once more, what's your point?

That you're not factoring in the reality of the situation into your expectations since the close of the 90's

[Monkey Tennis]

1 minute ago, 2426255 said:

That you're not factoring in the reality of the situation into your expectations since the close of the 90's

It's the reality of the situation that troubles me.

We've underachieved consistently over a long period.  I'm not saying that with reference to much earlier decades where our early adopter status gained us an advantage.  I'm saying it with reference to other smallish, European countries with a football culture, right now.

[2426255]

2 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

It's the reality of the situation that troubles me.

We've underachieved consistently over a long period.  I'm not saying that with reference to much earlier decades where our early adopter status gained us an advantage.  I'm saying it with reference to other smallish, European countries with a football culture, right now.

• Countries with markedly lower populations that have better performing national teams: Croatia, Wales
• Teams with markedly higher population that have worse performing national teams: Bulgaria, Belarus, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Israel (Funny that). 

It's not fair to expect more. Finishing third is about right for the size of country we are, if we finish second then we're doing well and finishing fourth is a bit disappointing - why is it so hard to accept that? I think you want us to overachieve consistently.

Edited September 3, 2021 by 2426255

[Gordopolis]

Population - that's the answer! Why has nobody ever suggested that before?! [emoji848]

[eez-eh]

1 hour ago, 2426255 said:

 

Denmark - qualified for 7 tournaments since the turn of the century.

Finland - 1

Slovakia - 3

Norway - 1

Ireland - 3

Then there’s the countries with markedly smaller populations.

Slovenia - 3

Wales - 2

Croatia - 9

Latvia - 1

North Macedonia - 1

Iceland - 2

Northern Ireland - 1

Albania - 1

So - since 2000 - Scotland trail Denmark, Slovakia, Slovenia, Wales, Croatia and Iceland; sitting alongside Finland, Norway, Latvia, North Macedonia, Northern Ireland and Albania. Many of the aforementioned also managed to get out their group.

“It’s not fair to expect more” 

[2426255]

There have been 11 major international tournaments since the millennium so the only countries who have consistently outperformed are Denmark and Croatia. The point still stands, our peers in international football are not at the top of the list, they are closer to the middle/bottom.

That's why we can't demand to be beating teams such as Austria, Czech Republic, England, Croatia and Denmark even at home. That's why we only qualified for the Euros through the back door playoffs, That's why we might not always beat Slovakia, Finland, Norway, Ireland, Israel and teams of this nature. Do you get it yet? Is it beginning to make sense? 

Edited September 3, 2021 by 2426255

[wastecoatwilly]

You could debate the teams of 96,98 are not much different to the team we have now.
Both have strong midfields very little up front and a dodgy defence.

[Gordopolis]

You could debate the teams of 96,98 are not much different to the team we have now.
Both have strong midfields very little up front and a dodgy defence.

The 96, 98 team was famously stingey in defence. IIRC we at one point had the best defensive record in Europe or the world.
Shite up front though, definitely.

[Willie adie]

The record 1 win in last 9 competitive games is really damning , but the euro qualification has obviously got him credit in the bank,. And with a new contract then he is sticking about, 

Qualification is over I fear even if we get 6 PTS in next two games

[eez-eh]

1 hour ago, 2426255 said:

There have been 11 major international tournaments since the millennium so the only countries who have consistently outperformed are Denmark and Croatia. The point still stands, our peers in international football are not at the top of the list, they are closer to the middle/bottom.

That's why we can't demand to be beating teams such as Austria, Czech Republic, England, Croatia and Denmark even at home. That's why we only qualified for the Euros through the back door playoffs, That's why we might not always beat Slovakia, Finland, Norway, Ireland, Israel and teams of this nature. Do you get it yet? Is it beginning to make sense? 

Slovakia, Slovenia, Ireland, Wales and Iceland have clearly outperformed us. Our “peers” in international football have largely done better than us when it comes to qualifying for tournaments and making it past the first round. Hence why you saying “it’s not fair to expect more” is a load of shite.

It’s incredibly ironic for someone so condescending to so consistently miss the point. Your response to people saying we’re underperforming is to quote past results. Yes, those are the results that people are saying we’ve underperformed in, thanks for proving the point. It isn’t that difficult to grasp.

[No_Problemo]

1 hour ago, Willie adie said:

The record 1 win in last 9 competitive games is really damning , but the euro qualification has obviously got him credit in the bank,. And with a new contract then he is sticking about, 

Qualification is over I fear even if we get 6 PTS in next two games

Why would qualification be even close to being over if we got six points in the next two games? It would leave us in a good position.