How did we do?

[Gordopolis]

Who are these people who expected miracles?  I keep missing them.

I don't know about miracles, but the whole media narrative of the Czechs being there for the taking and Croatia being over the hill and that Scotland would outrun them just looks really naïve now (very 78 Peru as I think you've already mentioned).
We did okay to compete against those two sides, and well to match England. In essence we performed like and finished as 4th seeds, no more, no less. Grim but true.

[Savage Henry]

3 minutes ago, Gordopolis said:

I don't know about miracles, but the whole media narrative of the Czechs being there for the taking and Croatia being over the hill and that Scotland would outrun them just looks really naïve now (very 78 Peru as I think you've already mentioned).
We did okay to compete against those two sides, and well to match England. In essence we performed like and finished as 4th seeds, no more, no less. Grim but true.

Wasn’t a media take.  I think it was driven by the fans.  Look at the game thread here.  I completely agree that the Czech side was underestimated, but that doesn’t mean Scotland’s performances (particularly in the last game) were up to scratch.   If Scotland only ever perform according to seeding, we’ll never qualify for anything ever again, ever.  And, even if we did, there are still shades of grey there.  You can perform like 4th seeds and still do yourself justice.  Scotland didn’t turn up against Croatia.  

[Gordopolis]

Wasn’t a media take.  I think it was driven by the fans.  Look at the game thread here.  I completely agree that the Czech side was underestimated, but that doesn’t mean Scotland’s performances (particularly in the last game) were up to scratch.   If Scotland only ever perform according to seeding, we’ll never qualify for anything ever again, ever.  And, even if we did, there are still shades of grey there.  You can perform like 4th seeds and still do yourself justice.  Scotland didn’t turn up against Croatia.  

Fair enough - I got my fill of the narrative via the media. Totally agree 4th seeds can and do perform better than we did, but can be anywhere within the range "utterly dreadful" -> "tournament dark horses". We were somewhere in the middle there. Nobody is laughing at us, in fact probably few people outside of Scotland even care.

Against Croatia, I'm undecided as to how much we were ever going to be able to control that game: they outplayed us and forced the players into the hopeless long ball. Clarke's midfield setup was wrong too though - this was the game we should have played with one striker (and 2 Vs the Czechs). There was definitely the whiff of missed opportunity there, but Croatia were excellent and got their game plan spot on.

[DAFC.]

In my opinion, over the 3 games, we did enough to go through as a best 3rd placed team. The Czech game we could have scored 4 or 5, but we didn't. We were outdone after a period of heavy pressure from the Czechs (a very good header by Schick in all fairness) and a freak goal at equally brutal times in the match. Their keeper pulled off an incredible finger-tip save, whilst trekking backwards, after it deflected off his own man. We hit the bar, forced their keeper in to good saves etc etc. It was "one of those games" The England game speaks for itself (maybe could have sneaked it, but a draw a fair result) and Croatia had more than enough talent just to pick us off when we are playing an open game, which they did expertly. 

Missed opportunity? Absolutely. However, we shouldn't be too disheartened by it but hopefully we've learned from our shortfalls and take it in to these next qualifiers for the World Cup. We'll have our work cut out having to play away to Denmark and Austria away in quick succession. Second place has to be the aim for us as we are absolutely miles off where Denmark are. They have looked technically fantastic in the Euros, with majority of their players playing at the very top. A draw there would be quite an incredible result in all honesty. 

[Monkey Tennis]

4 hours ago, DAFC. said:

In my opinion, over the 3 games, we did enough to go through as a best 3rd placed team. The Czech game we could have scored 4 or 5, but we didn't.

That's not realistic at all.

We had enough chances to say we should have scored, but we certainly didn't have enough clear cut ones to suggest we might have scored a barrow load.

That's a gross overstatement of how we performed in that game.

[SouthLanarkshireWhite]

On 23/06/2021 at 04:19, Boo Khaki said:

CR - Wrong team selection. Clarke claimed he knew his team the day before, so perhaps Tierney's injury threw that plan into disarray, but even still, he picked the wrong starting 11 from the players still available to him. Performance wasn't great, but I honestly think most of that was down to the balance of the side being wrong rather that just outright bad performances. We could have played with two strikers or three in central midfield, and in the end we did neither, meaning even Jack Hendry ended up trying to Beckenbauer it. Players - 6/10 Clarke 3/10

England - Flawless team selection and tactics, which showed England up for the over-rated, over-hyped run of the mill side they are. Only criticism is that yet again our strikers looked like they could play for a month and not score. Might be harsh since we weren't exactly carving out clear cut chance after clear cut chance, but I thought that one or two of them were the sort of chances that any international striker should be tucking away. Adams' after 4 mins when he didn't test the keeper the most glaring. Players 9/10 Clarke 9/10

Croatia - Again, the wrong team selection, but exacerbated by a gameplan that made no sense whatsoever. Pack the last third of your own half, no closing down, no harassment, don't bother trying to play out when you do have the ball, then worst of all for me, there were umpteen occasions when we had the ball on half-way or inside the Croat half under no pressure, and rather than attempt to create something, we cycled it all the way back to Marshall in order to have him thump it 60 yards at Lyndon Dykes. We did it so often that it looked like it was a deliberate part of the tactical approach. Yet again, missing a few sitters (by international standards), the wrong team selection, and some baffling tactics cost us. Players 5/10 Clarke 3/10

Over the entire piece I thought we were disappointing if I'm honest. The poor performances in the first and third matches were overshadowed by a really positive performance in London which kind of masks how bad things were on either side of that. I totally accept that we don't have the technical ability of the Croats, or that we don't have a clinical unit of a striker like Schick, but with the players we do have I still think we could have done a little better overall. It's ok to be beaten by better sides, but when you are limited like we are you can't afford to get your selections and tactics wrong, otherwise you are complicit in your own demise and just make things even easier for the opposition. 

Overall I thought the players were about 6/10, but that owes a lot to tremendous performances at Wembley dragging the scores up. Clarke 5/10, the same story as the players. A C-/D+ 'must do better'.

Agreed. How much of the good performance was driven by the fact that it was England?  Had it been Italy, Portugal or Germany away would we have got a 0-0 and looked in the game?

Lets see what happens in Copenhagen and Vienna...no excuses

[Marshmallo]

Group opponents have beaten the Netherlands, beaten Germany and drew with Spain. Crazy to think that if we'd played a couple of St Johnstone players and Nathan Patterson we'd have won the Euros.

[Bing.McCrosby]

1 hour ago, Marshmallo said:

Group opponents have beaten the Netherlands, beaten Germany and drew with Spain. Crazy to think that if we'd played a couple of St Johnstone players and Nathan Patterson we'd have won the Euros.

Absolute revisionist rubbish, Czechs were getting nothing till the Dutch had a man sent off. And Croatia were played off the park by Spain. 

Also were either Spain or the Dutch at home? No, didn't think so.

Im wondering how the Sweden Ukraine result will next prove somehow that Steve Clarke doing a great job.

 

[Marshmallo]

12 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

Absolute revisionist rubbish, Czechs were getting nothing till the Dutch had a man sent off. And Croatia were played off the park by Spain. 

Also were either Spain or the Dutch at home? No, didn't think so.

Im wondering how the Sweden Ukraine result will next prove somehow that Steve Clarke doing a great job.

 

Czechs 2-0 Netherlands

England 2-0 Germany

Croatia 3-3 Spain

What about any of those factual results can be termed "revisionist"?

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, Marshmallo said:

Czechs 2-0 Netherlands

England 2-0 Germany

Croatia 3-3 Spain

What about any of those factual results can be termed "revisionist"?

Think I answered that already 

Just now, BingMcCrosby said:

Absolute revisionist rubbish, Czechs were getting nothing till the Dutch had a man sent off. And Croatia were played off the park by Spain. 

Also were either Spain or the Dutch at home? No, didn't think so.

Im wondering how the Sweden Ukraine result will next prove somehow that Steve Clarke doing a great job.

 

 

[skiblue]

Done nae bad. Czech game was little disappointing

ABE

[Cptn Hooch]

On 23/06/2021 at 00:06, Caley Shaun said:

He is good at Livi though, pretty sure he keeps them in games with vital saves. 

Who told you that? McCrorie had 2 or 3 games where he looked a capable keeper, most others he looked so far off the pace with virtually zero presence in his own box. I would have been more comfortable with Ross Stewart in goals if i'm honest. There must be a decent keeper in there with all the reviews from Rangers and QoS fans but we didn't see that at Livi. He's some way below the level Liam Kelly or Zander Clark are currently performing at. I can't understand why Steve Clarke didn't take Kelly or Clark as the third keeper over McLaughlin who, although a good keeper, hasn't been first choice for his club and falls into the same over 30s category as our other 2 keepers. The chances of the third keeper even getting near the pitch is slim to zero so what harm would it have caused to take one of the better performing young Scottish keepers to get them in and around the international set up and looking to the future? We persisted with the same old boys all over the park for so long to no avail, guys like Brown, Mulgrew, Fletcher, Whittaker etc when we should have been looking at bedding in younger guys. It's something England do really well and it's great to see Paterson, Gilmour and Turnbull being included in our squad as it shows we may be heading that way.

[craigkillie]

I don't think you can take that risk with the goalkeeping position with covid about. As well as that, with the age that Marshall and Gordon are, it's not inconceivable that McLaughlin could be our first choice keeper at the next Euros. Kelly is currently the only obvious contender for that, but he still has a mistake in him.

[Ludo*1]

I honestly think Kelly is another Bain type in that he's had a lot of early initial hype, but he'll not be a Scotland quality player. That obviously doesn't mean he'll not get a game - but I'd hope there's something better.

I dread the thought of it being Bain now that I've mentioned him.

Is that Craig MacGillivray any good? His former Portsmouth manager was saying that if they had activated his extension, he'd have received a significant increase in wages that he didn't feel was value. He even won their PotY (for the local newspaper) last season. The manager also stated that MacGillivray was more suited to 'direct football' which would play into Clarke's ethos.

Potentially could be him and McLaughlin battling it out for a few year until someone of higher quality comes along unless Kelly or McCrorie step it up again.

Must admit I am slightly bias because Kelly is being kept out of the QPR team by Seny Dieng who was just about Scottish Prem bang average level IMO.

[RobbieD]

20 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

I honestly think Kelly is another Bain type in that he's had a lot of early initial hype, but he'll not be a Scotland quality player. That obviously doesn't mean he'll not get a game - but I'd hope there's something better.

I dread the thought of it being Bain now that I've mentioned him.

Is that Craig MacGillivray any good? His former Portsmouth manager was saying that if they had activated his extension, he'd have received a significant increase in wages that he didn't feel was value. He even won their PotY (for the local newspaper) last season. The manager also stated that MacGillivray was more suited to 'direct football' which would play into Clarke's ethos.

Potentially could be him and McLaughlin battling it out for a few year until someone of higher quality comes along unless Kelly or McCrorie step it up again.

Must admit I am slightly bias because Kelly is being kept out of the QPR team by Seny Dieng who was just about Scottish Prem bang average level IMO.

Dieng was brilliant at Dundee and he’s gone in at QPR and raised his game again. They all love him down there. Also think that Liam Kelly is crap and needs to go.

[Highlandmagar]

Considering I was convinced we wouldn't get a point, I would say we performed above our level. Verdict..A resounding success.

[craigkillie]

2 hours ago, RobbieD said:

Dieng was brilliant at Dundee and he’s gone in at QPR and raised his game again. They all love him down there. Also think that Liam Kelly is crap and needs to go.

Fair play on being able to speak to every single QPR fan - must have taken a while, particularly when a pandemic was on.

[Highlandmagar]

8 hours ago, craigkillie said:

Fair play on being able to speak to every single QPR fan - must have taken a while, particularly when a pandemic was on.

Give him credit. Easily done on a group session on facetime!

[RobbieD]

On 01/07/2021 at 21:46, craigkillie said:

Fair play on being able to speak to every single QPR fan - must have taken a while, particularly when a pandemic was on.

I mean, I grew up and lived in West London until 6 months ago and have had a season ticket for QPR for the last 7 seasons so I’ve spoken to a few of them. 
 

How many have you spoken to?

[craigkillie]

I'm not the one claiming to speak for all of them.