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Lowland League 2021-22 General Chat


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26 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Presumably the previous rules (which don't allow B teams) are still in place? Though I'd really like to know long a league can continue to run playing under rules that haven't approved by the SFA, seems to me like they are effectively playing under appeal.

With no rule changes approved presumably the OF colt games simply turn into friendlies at that point?

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42 minutes ago, Kirk St Moritz said:

According to what I was told last week,  East Kilbride were strongly against it, and wanted the Tay boundary to remain   No idea who voted in favour, but pretty conclusive against, if what is quoted above is accurate.

Fair enough, that would be good news.

On reflection, I'm not convinced of the need for a hard border - I think @craigkillie articulated the different options well. 

However, unfortunately, the fiasco around Brechin has entrenched people's views so I don't think we can look forward to a progressive solution anytime soon. I suppose I'm thinking of regional leagues at tier 7 instead of conferences....but to be honest I've not really watched what the opinion is for future and if there is any desire for regionalization within eosfl/wosfl due to their much bigger numbers of team.

Edited by BS7
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1 hour ago, Ginaro said:

Presumably the previous rules (which don't allow B teams) are still in place? Though I'd really like to know long a league can continue to run playing under rules that haven't approved by the SFA, seems to me like they are effectively playing under appeal.

Technically, if new rules haven't been approved they're playing under the old rules, which don't include the B teams. But the SFA must have sanctioned those matches in some way - they provided referees, after all. 

This could get very murky. It's hard to see how the SFA could withhold approval, but that still leaves the issue of the wording in the play-off rules.

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32 minutes ago, GordonS said:

Technically, if new rules haven't been approved they're playing under the old rules, which don't include the B teams. But the SFA must have sanctioned those matches in some way - they provided referees, after all. 

This could get very murky. It's hard to see how the SFA could withhold approval, but that still leaves the issue of the wording in the play-off rules.

The SFA would be the ultimate arbiter?

To see this logically, even if a lowland league team was excluded for not "winning" the championship....what would be the next step?

A play off between say Buckie Thistle and Stranraer, and a situation where the Stranraer if they lost would go into the lowland league. I can't see that situation happening. Well, I can, but I really don't think it will.

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4 hours ago, It's Me said:

I was told that 12 clubs voted against the new proposal and 2 clubs voted for it. 
 

Any word on when the board members will be replaced, and who will be standing to replace them?

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Would assume that the new resolution isn't directly to do with B teams but rather about the boundary. The B teams are legally part of the Lowland League and I don't see any actual issue with that in terms of the SFA.

The reason they have been mentioned in relation to this will be part of another vague quid quo pro threat which doesn't come directly from the SFA but doesn't not come from them. Basically it will been have hinted that if they don't agree to the changes then the SFA may not agree to allowing a team who are not champions to take part in the play-offs. The SPFL made similar threats about League Cup and Challenge Cup places over the last two seasons but they were very obviously empty threats since it would impact the smooth running of those competitions. It's less clear that the SFA won't follow through on this - it's probably about 60-40 to me in favour of them letting it go.

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Apparently approval of new rules to allow OF colts was directly linked to the HL-LL boundary shift in correspondence to the LL from the PGB/SFA. Resignations related to whether the LL board would tell the clubs about this. Some discussion that the LL might want automatic promotion in exchange. HL have agreed the boundary shift apparently while LL rejected (draw your own conclusions on whether that means the HL really want Brechin City on board and the Midlands League as a feeder if there is a way to reverse it). Lot of chat about how playing so many games with unapproved rules affects the Club 42 playoff and relegation from the LL. Could potentially be a problem apparently (which is no doubt why the SFA thought they had enough leverage to force the boundary shift through). No serious chat of extra relegation from the LL internally in response to the arrival of the WoS apparently. Mention of turkeys voting for Christmas and some chat about an LL2 being a potential solution.

Edited by LongTimeLurker
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And now for something completely different...

I'm interested in the spectator impact that the OF B teams are having on other clubs' home attendances.

Does anyone have access to any analysis yet?

[I AM aware that actual attendance gathering can be a basic problem. Anecdotal info. would also be of interest!]

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The Lowland League were quick enough to propose and vote for Colt teams but havent even spoke about more promotion spots for 3 feeder leagues below!

The SPFL gets called out for being a Self preservation league when Lowland League probably even worse with potential for 0 or just 1 team relegated from currently an 18 team league! Why not propose for 18 team league going forward and automatic promotion from East, West & South leagues as mentioned in podcast with 3 up and 3 down. From the outside I really don't think Lowland League teams are interested in making the league more competitive as will be harder for team at top for promotion to SPFL once top East & West teams are promoted although I'd like to think Bonnyrigg and Bo'ness would love to get their local rivalries back with East teams plus renewing rivalries against likes of Talbot, Clydebank, Meadow would add a lot. For teams like Edinburgh Uni, Stirling Uni and Cumbernauld Colts they don't want to mention extra relegation spots as more likely to be relegated not just to tier 6 but tier 7 or below once they do eventually go down in a few years time. So they know once out Lowland League they likely won't be back at that level..

When moving senior West Teams should really have asked for automatic promotion as part of joining the pyramid as Lowland League teams obviously really don't want to risk chance of dropping down the leagues while West Premier Division teams have 6 or 7 relegated this season and East Premier Division teams 4 relegated from their respective top divisions.











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Listened to the first half hour and it's been decent and balanced so far.

Just a wee note, absolutely nobody should be surprised that increased relegation hasn't been discussed seriously by the LL board. I think there's this feeling from some LL supporters that the LL were the 'good guys' and the SPFL were the 'bad guys' when it comes to turkeys voting for Christmas. That's nonsense. It was plain as anything that George Fraser was being a complete hypocrite when he talked about "ventilation". I appreciate the guys from the catch-up want to think the best of the guy but that's naïve. The LL could have shown their commitment to proper "ventilation" ages ago. The creation of the WoSFL was the perfect opportunity and they ducked it... again. 

And then you have the HL who put in an even less 'ventilation' inducing movement between tiers 5 and 6. The HL and LL are no better than the SPFL on this issue.

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The Lowland League were quick enough to propose and vote for Colt teams but havent even spoke about more promotion spots for 3 feeder leagues below!

The SPFL gets called out for being a Self preservation league when Lowland League probably even worse with potential for 0 or just 1 team relegated from currently an 18 team league! Why not propose for 18 team league going forward and automatic promotion from East, West & South leagues as mentioned in podcast with 3 up and 3 down


Your point is a good one on the whole, but also highlights one of the problems with the Tier 6 structure right now. The South of Scotland League isn't anywhere near on a par with the others and so automatic promotion between it and the Lowland League would be a waste of time. Better to merge it into the WoS structure and then have strong East and West leagues. This should have happened when the WoS was set up.
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Your point is a good one on the whole, but also highlights one of the problems with the Tier 6 structure right now. The South of Scotland League isn't anywhere near on a par with the others and so automatic promotion between it and the Lowland League would be a waste of time. Better to merge it into the WoS structure and then have strong East and West leagues. This should have happened when the WoS was set up.
In the interim have a play-off between the West and the South or even South and the winner of a East/West runner-up play-off...
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4 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Was told said chairman was also telling some people in the west that he was supportive of option Z and the split into LL East and LL West as a way to facilitate full SJFA pyramid entry for 2020-21 but then wasn't able to deliver the approval from the LL clubs.

still is going on about increasing size of LL and increased promotion and regelation. maybe thats why hes former chairman!!!!!!

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4 hours ago, Gordon EF said:

Listened to the first half hour and it's been decent and balanced so far.

Just a wee note, absolutely nobody should be surprised that increased relegation hasn't been discussed seriously by the LL board. I think there's this feeling from some LL supporters that the LL were the 'good guys' and the SPFL were the 'bad guys' when it comes to turkeys voting for Christmas. That's nonsense. It was plain as anything that George Fraser was being a complete hypocrite when he talked about "ventilation". I appreciate the guys from the catch-up want to think the best of the guy but that's naïve. The LL could have shown their commitment to proper "ventilation" ages ago. The creation of the WoSFL was the perfect opportunity and they ducked it... again. 

And then you have the HL who put in an even less 'ventilation' inducing movement between tiers 5 and 6. The HL and LL are no better than the SPFL on this issue.

When Fraser talks of ventilation, he means with the SPFL.  There's little intention of ventilation the other way.

Another thing that won't go away is LL2, a concept that was born out of the desire to keep the Juniors at arms length had they gained access to tier 6 but is probably now viewed by the clubs as a good way of saving their arses by taking control of tier 6 and dropping into another Lowland run league as opposed to WoS or EoS.  Delaying the inevitable of course but when it comes to self preservation then anything and everything is on the table.

They are worse than the SPFL.

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5 hours ago, Gordon EF said:

And then you have the HL who put in an even less 'ventilation' inducing movement between tiers 5 and 6. The HL and LL are no better than the SPFL on this issue.

The relegation rules from the HL are at least far more understandable. There are only 2 licensed clubs in the leagues below and other than a handful of sides in the Midlands League and Banks O'Dee not much in terms of quality in tier 6 either. The situation underneath the LL is considerably different.

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